Not op pve? Just saw a video rogue doing 800 dps in gnomergan while they saying that the armor of bosses is huge xD dunno man
they removed premade or not? i tried to que with a premade, and we where sitting in a 40 minute que without a que pop
cant say much to it, i havent seen hydra vs pshero, only hydra vs payo, and hydra won most of the games, but i have to say that âpayoâ isnt the greatest rogue, so mby perplex, or pshero would have won more games
This is Ret Paladin, walking in rp mode âcuz slowedâ Hoj, Crusader strike, autoattack, Divine Storm
yeah to hope for rnd procs is really skill
i mean i get what u are saying, but to lack of âabilitiesâ doesnt mean, that your class have a higher skill floor
For slows, rogue need it against warris at 60, to deathzone them, with also needs âskillâ or do you think a newbie rogue, or bad pvper who click his buttons can do it?
Higher toolkit means = more things you can do depending on the situation some rogues cheap shot their oponent with a stop attack macro while they sitting in a cc, to add a exposed armor to it
i know it´s not "crazy or Rocket science, but not everyone does stuff like this, many rogues are random run someone, meele tank him, and woander why they die.
Then u have experienced rogues who Vanish, while they have the flag in wsg, to sap the oponent and grab the flag in the same time.
Rogue is op, i never denied it, but saying that rogue needs less skill than a ret, or need´s zero skill is just not true.
it´s like saying, mage need´s less skill than a Bm hunter
why in the world would someone Cheap shot, and then instantly vanish into Ambush, just why, u mean u can thistle tea it, but this opener aint worth 50 silver
it´s like Cheap shot, Mutilate and then u can decide if u want to gouge him, or between the eyes him, if u gouge him u get a 1 sec longer stun, but it takes u longer to kill him, with means more time for him to get support from his team mates
and if u want to overkill a fire or arcane mage, it´s most likely ambush, into blind when your ambush dont crit into stealth and ambush again
Rogue toolkit is broken has always been like this, but shadow priest dmg in classic when it comes to pvp was broken too, the only weak point was/is his mana.
And btw, about slow, i mean grippling poison, the spell âpistol heroâ is just toxic, and needs to be removed out of the game, cuz there is no counterplay to it.
Mutilate get´s nerfed anyway, when rogue have acces to dual wield specialization, we are just in a beta test room, and waiting for changes.
sometimes it´s only 270-350, also u miss allot of Mutilates on mh or offhand, cuz of dual wield, and the lack of hit
but yeah Mutilate is op, because it does the same dmg as backstab, and dont need a positioning requirement, with makes sinister strike, and backstab instantly useless, ah and mutilate gives you 2 combo points
i dont mind when they nerf mutilate, but buff backstab instead, that backstab gives you 2 combo points instead of 1
Was he poison/envenom spec?
ofc everyone is poison envenom spec, who does 450-500+ dps according to warcraft logs, if im not wrong
a Melee Rogue which is countered by simply not being alone. is more overpowered then a 40 yard Instacast Oneshotter. Cool
They blow a 5 min CD to escape a root? sounds like a good trade realistically.
They added a new mechanic with premades, you are more likely to get matched with premades than rdm pugs.
It goes to show how much RNG a pally needs to get any meaningful damage out whereas the rogue is quite literally spamming Mutis one after another, which deal half of a Starsurge/SWD per 40energy
Kinda does, you are more limited to your tools and have to use them better than a rogue who can stunlock you quite easily and often.
And who am I kidding, most people will trinket the HoJ anyways because itâs 1min CD.
Mages with good reactions, and people who are serious about PvP will use FaPs more often then Thistle Teas, FaPs cost 30s per use and people in SoD also use em in both BFD and Gnomeregan.
But with SoD PvP allowing rogues to use less CDs due to the overtuned runes in terms of range/damage/etc. rogues do not see the need to use CDs for 75%+ of their encounters.
Literally getting less gauged and blinded because the damage and utility from rogues PvP runes is absolutely busted.
What teammates? Most of the times rogues are degens to begin with and gank people while being a higher level, so you get folded by an unbalanced class which has not been addressed since P1 ended. They got spoonfed with a -20energy buff to Mutilate, a hard hitting ability with 2CP per use.
And with SoD rogues get away with much more insane stuff that they would never ever get away with if it was Classic PvP. Something that cannot be said for SP.
remove bte while we are at it, getting crit by a stun spell that has a 20y range for 450 crit is simply bad gameplay.
Too bad PvP hit requirements are much lower than the oneâs in PvE, so itâs a mood point tbh.
Played STV recently? Always 1 rogue per grp that will sit on any healer they get their ugly hands on, SP nor boomies could oneshot but okay low stam mage.
Good trade if they manage to kill you, which is most likely the case, unless you play frost and reset CDs.
No clue why anyone would argue that rogues are more balanced than SP/Boomies when they got an absurd toolkit to work with ontop of SoD runes that boost damage, CC and mobility. SP needs more setup then Rogue at this point, yet they get the nerf bat first. Common Blizzard L, canât wait for the FoTM rogues to get screwed over.
Because iâd take a melee one hit, over a ranged one hit any day. lol
with all the gapvlosers rogue have now it makes no difference if he is nect to you or away he can be wherever he choses to
Rogues are fine 
hm, i played really many Ab´s until 100k Honor, and i have to say i only saw 2 Premades
i mean ofc, some peoples play with their friends 2-3 Peoples who play Heal, and and run together, or some guilds, but i think Shadow is decent event without Friends, if u have a good zerg grp With is just a ârandom gamble thingâ
it´s like, Either you have a good Zerg group or you donât, and if you dont have it, every class feels bad 
well, it still doesnt mean it have anything to do with skill, it´s just bad gamedesigne, and rogues have to deal With Resist, u dont know, how often a priest resist my Cheap shot, this kind of stuff is just a âclassic/vanillaâ wow thing, a oldschool mmo game, where rng is a big factor
Maybe it was the way to balance classes back then, like ârogue have a op toolkit and can win every 1v1â Lets make Cheap shot so that you have a chance to resist it"
Well, in retail yes, in classic no, cuz u cant use it wrong, from every ret, the first global is Hoj, and then u hope for a kill in the hoj, thats it
if u get slowed what u wanna do? using fap?
The only thing he can do is support his team mates, like the healer in his team getting cheap shot, or kidney by an rogue? just Bop your Healer
do you think any Ret in a bg did this? XD
they just run like bots to you, and try to spam on button 1 hoj.
Yeah this change is bad, that every insigna getting normalized, it was the only weak point about mage and rogue, that they cant Trinket a stun
It feels like they want to remove all weak points from classes in SOD, im not a fan of it either, even when i hate it, when a ret hoj me
i mean yeah, at 60 anyway, but currently, it´s kinda expensive, if you dont rmt, u cant buy 1000 of them, and play bgs for years
i mean u can farm it, and then doing bg´s but I think only a small percentage are doing it at the moment, it´s just not worth at the moment, especially since ranking is capped
i really barely noticed, that someone using fap, or thistle tea
but u still dont cheap shot them, because they will blink it, u just Sap or Step Ambush into Mutilate, and they are dead instantly
at 60, when everyone have more Hp, u cheap shot them, into step
Well, rogues need something to be viable in a Pvp grp fight, when it comes to battlegrounds, it was always like this
this game just isnt build around 1v1
the Job from a Rogue, in a good Team fight bg, is just to CC the enemy like for example
Both teams Walking into a Teamfight in Ab, Rogue go in Stealth at Bs using Sprint, and try to Sap the last people who is in the Enemy grp, or with Luck a Healer
then Blind a dangerous Dps Like Moonkin, Shadow or Mage, gouge someone, so your team have for a short time a 10 vs 7 scenario
You still forget that some classes are better when it comes to overall dmg and some classes are better when it comes to utility and support.
and rogue just shine in a 1v1 Fight and openworld, thanks to Stealth and the first opener. this is classic
Peoples in your Bg, or Openworld
âSorry to break your bubble, but other classes like hunters do that too, the reason why Rogues are more present there, because they can choice their enemys, like if they see 4 Peoples on one spot, they just waiting until one player is alone.
and many Rogues also doing it, because they are not good at their class, they lose every fight on their level
it´s just bad player behavior
i think the intention there, was to buff it for pve purposes, because this spell was completely garbage in pve.
Idk, u guys have a big armor pen support for your team, really good dmg, a extra dot, better mana management now, dispersion, dispell, if you think your class sucks, then this isnt the right class for you mate.
other peoples have the fun of their live who playing shadow in sod, a friend of mine love it.
idk, i like this spell, helps allot against this bad parry rng thing, i mean i could say the same, just remove shadow dispersion
lets trade bte remove for dispersion remove okay?
no it´s not a âmoodâ point, in the current face you are not be able to get enough hit, so in the â current phase, my point still stands.
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I donât know it was mage pov,and I see the rogue toping the meters 1st and 2nd boss with 800+dps ,didnât watched the full run it was 45 min video
About balance on pvp and dmg,rogue canât have mutilate that hits like a truck and its a combo generate ability and then the spender, eviscerate ,is less powerful. I mean 40 energy 2 combo generate is just too good.
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Mind Blast hits 730 damage Shadow (critical)
Shadow Word Death hits for 760 damage (166 Overkill)
You are crying on wrong forum, play a bit more and then come again.
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So he was able to hit you 11 times before you died? And the rest of the story is?
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You still havent told me your name though. All i see is excuses. Now pass me your best friends parses. Since you are dodging. Just saying atleast i had 11/12 prenerf HC in Icc. Where are u?
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rogue canât have mutilate that hits like a truck and its a combo generate ability and then the spender, eviscerate ,is less powerful.
I completly agree on this, its bad design if your FINISHER does less dmg. Hell, the situation is so obnoxious atm, that yesterday in PvP rogues were simply doing mulilate â mutilate â mutilate â mutilate â mutilate and THEN â eviscerate, which is the stupidest thing Iâve ever seen
For shred to crit this hard you need to spend 1 point on savageroar, you need to pop tigersfury and you need to mangle the target first and you need to get behind the target. A hell of a setup to do before you have a chance to crit near 1k
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Firstly I quit classic wotlk pretty much straight away after levelling and the same with TBC. But I can assure you I done all wrath content back in the day and would reach between 1900-2000 arena rating each season from S3 onwards until end of wrath.
Secondly I donât record logs for any content, especially lvl 25 content that has little to no mechanics on most fights. Most of the people I was in a guild with didnât do logs either.
However there is a few logs recorded & uploaded from BFD so if you really want to know my average is around 86 across all bosses. Had people not been using mechanical greech it would have been around 89 average. Sometimes I would off tank & most of the time I would only get the BFD buff pre raid , unless DMF was next to TB. Basically I didnât try hard or sweat and I still easily obtained a higher average than all of your wrath parses.
But this for me literally has no bearing on your skill level and merely means you have an understanding of your class and what buttons to push in what order.
The only indicator of skill imo in classic versions would be arenas, which are also heavily favoured towards specific classes and class combos. Even more so than original game because people literally know every aspect of the game now.
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Expected , nice story bro.
You still going on about parsing on a lvl 25 raid as an indication of skill 
This whole thing is about you claiming that Rogues have one of the highest skill ceilings and then linking your mediocre wrath parses to prove that youâre a top level player. You havenât even made 1850 in arena in last 3 seasons.
I donât play wrath or log parses so I donât know what to tell you. Youâre an average player like me. I donât excel in any aspects of the game and donât claim to be playing at the highest level. I donât need to, itâs a casual version of classic with very little in the way of challenging content.
You on the other hand seem to think youâre a god because you got a few 90+ parses in BFD and have cleared HC ICC. Gz well done you beat the game.
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Sure, but also CCs can Hold them back alot easier, then a caster who can outrange you lol