🛡 [RP Project] Stormwind Community Lawbook

[Sígtryggr-argent-dawn]

Agreed, its not forced on anyone, just those looking to engage in these avenues for rp n not forced again, spoken about and arranged

[Tenasa-argent-dawn]

One guard guild follows your book. Another doesn’t.

Guard group A capture a thief who is stealing goods. They look at the book and then say that the thief needs to work in the gardens.
The thief bolts because they forgot handcuffs.

The thief is then captured by Guard Group B. They find the stolen goods. They move to hack the hand off the thief.

Guard Group A arrives to take the thief back. They hold up their book and say that the thief only needs to do some community service.
Guard Group B disagrees. They move to hack the hand off.

Guard Group A’s RP is ignored because Guard Group B doesn’t follow the ‘book’.

Can you see the problems arising from this?
Can you see any situation where this will be good for RP?

[Envylin-argent-dawn]

@Tenebries-argent-dawn

If you don’t like the project, just move on. No one is forcing you on it and if someone does, its an issue of that player.

This is a worrying statement tbh. You’re here hoping to unleash a community driven project that deals with power over other RPers and with zero oversight to people who might abuse it? Classess really.

@Tenebries-argent-dawn

If you don’t like the project

I don’t like the project, nor the way it is run and i’ll be steering clear of the aforementioned guilds. Amusing that the Lion’s Roar seems to have a bad rap-sheet and not just from my own interaction with the GL of it.

@Tenebries-argent-dawn

So far it looks merely that you don’t like this project

There’s been more than just me saying they don’t find the project to be of benefit, i’m just the only person bored enough to debate it with you, so please, try again.

@Tenebries-argent-dawn

so you bash against it for what reason?

Public forum - a place where the public can voice their thoughts. If you don’t like the idea, don’t post on it?

@Tenebries-argent-dawn

it’ll just shut down.

I don’t remember asking you to?

@Tenebries-argent-dawn

It’s been explained multiple times already of why and what.

It’s been explained, but not clearly and it seems nobody is leading it or willing to stand up and say that they are the one to head to with concerns when this eventually goes chesticles up

[Tenasa-argent-dawn]

I have written a series of guides that is pinned to the top of the thread. They are merely suggestions and pointers, rather than 'THIS IS HOW WE MUST RP!".

General RolePlay Guides

When it comes to role-play, some people can find it daunting. There is a lot to take in, a lot to manage, a lot to consider and a lot to learn. Some may even find it over-whelming when they wish to take their first steps and try it out. To this, I have compiled several guides to help those who are new to role-play, touching on subjects commonly seen in role-play, as well as those who wish to expand into hosting their own events. https://imgur.com/a/vJB0GTD In this guide, we explore the first…

[Tenebries-argent-dawn]

@Declan-argent-dawn

I’ve another question, 1/2 other guilds/communities also use a lawbook, how would a standard roleplay encounter go with them when they’ve broken / abused the laws within your own?

It mostly downs to IC / OOC interaction. If a law is broken and a guard states on what basis character is being detained, if person is okay with that, they just go with it. Then a character is brought into cells, a bit of conversation to learn who this character is (standard interrogation basically) and then a guard OOCly asks the player if all is good and informs them that “Okay, so you can have your character fined, shamed, put into community service or a night in the cells” (Something between those lines) and then player replies if that’s okay with them or not.

So when stuff like this is arranged on an OOC level, RP proceeds according to this OOC agreement. Of course, there might be some cases when people come to disagreement hence NPC court system/justification. But so far, we’ve been slowly integrating this idea and talking with criminal roleplayers and it worked out very well. I hope this answers your question!

[Tenasa-argent-dawn]

But… we are ignoring you. Remember?

[Envylin-argent-dawn]

@Tenebries-argent-dawn

So when stuff like this is arranged on an OOC level, RP proceeds according to this OOC agreement.

Good lord. A community project about whispering people OOC.

[Tenebries-argent-dawn]

“Leading” it instantly assumes this leading person can gatekeep decisions easily and thus it is no longer a community project. I think it’s suffice to say we end up on having a disagreement.

[Guenh-argent-dawn]

Maybe try to see it this way:
The King’s Footmen, like any other (decent) guard guild that ever existed, has a set of rules to ensure that their members act with a certain consistency. This set of rules exists, whether it is public or not.

This project basically does three things:
a) It makes the set of rules public for others to know what to expect when bringing their crime RP to the King’s Footmen, if they want.
b) It lets others weigh in with suggestions, opinions, and so on, if they want.
c) It allows other guards to follow the same set of rules, if they want.

The important part here is the ‘if they want’ part. It’s not forced on anyone. The lawbook will likely never ever even come up for you if you don’t decide to specifically bring your crime RP to the King’s Footmen. I know at least that it will never come up when interacting with anyone from the Amber Foundation - we are not guards, after all.
So I feel like you steering clear of all the guilds that have provided any input just… doesn’t actually accomplish anything? But you do you, of course.

What I would suggest is steering clear of this thread if you so dislike it, and perhaps using your time in a more productive manner.

[Envylin-argent-dawn]

@Tenebries-argent-dawn

“Leading” it instantly assumes this leading person can gatekeep decisions easily and thus it is no longer a community project.

A project needs a leader. That’s just… how can you have NO leader? What happens when people have conflicting ideas within the discord about something? What happenes when a disagreement needs to be solved? Who do you raise concerns and questions to?

Actually, I give up. I have no intention of being part of this silly project, i’ll just enjoy watching people learn valuable lessons I suppose

[Brodwýn-argent-dawn]

@Envylin-argent-dawn

Good lord. A community project about whispering people OOC.

Yes, God forbid you have to actually TALK to the people you play with…

[Tenasa-argent-dawn]

Okay… What about if I was in Stormwind, I cry out for guards to stop someone and I don’t get the guards I want?
I’m not going to cry out “Guards, I need help! (King’s Footmen, ignore this please)”.

[Guenh-argent-dawn]

Okay… What about if I was in Stormwind, I cry out for guards to stop someone and I don’t get the guards I want?
I’m not going to cry out “Guards, I need help! (King’s Footmen, ignore this please)”.

It sounds like what you’re worrying about is that the guards all use different sets of rules.
In that case I’ll have to tell you: That is how it is. But it is actually an argument for a community law book, because it provides an avenue for everyone using the same rules.

[Envylin-argent-dawn]

@Guenh-argent-dawn

a) It makes the set of rules public for others to know what to expect when bringing their crime RP to the King’s Footmen, if they want.

Issue one - If I don’t want to interact with them because of this outlandish Law Book, then what? If my guild of petty criminals wants to interact with guards but not on these terms, are we left with no guards at all then? Currently, as far as i’m aware, aside from guildless guard RPers, the KFM are the only active guard guild.

@Guenh-argent-dawn

b) It lets others weigh in with suggestions, opinions, and so on, if they want.

This is fair enough.

@Guenh-argent-dawn

c) It allows other guards to follow the same set of rules, if they want.

@Tenasa-argent-dawn

One guard guild follows your book. Another doesn’t.

Guard group A capture a thief who is stealing goods. They look at the book and then say that the thief needs to work in the gardens.
The thief bolts because they forgot handcuffs.

The thief is then captured by Guard Group B. They find the stolen goods. They move to hack the hand off the thief.

Guard Group A arrives to take the thief back. They hold up their book and say that the thief only needs to do some community service.
Guard Group B disagrees. They move to hack the hand off.

Guard Group A’s RP is ignored because Guard Group B doesn’t follow the ‘book’.

Can you see the problems arising from this?
Can you see any situation where this will be good for RP?

@Guenh-argent-dawn

It’s not forced on anyone.

But… it is? There will be RPers who WILL force this on people - unwittingly or otherwise.

@Guenh-argent-dawn

don’t decide to specifically bring your crime RP to the King’s Footmen.

“If you don’t decide to bring your RP the only active, substancial Guard Guild” - which by the way doesn’t work because other RPers will often fetch the most well known guard guild to any crime they come across after a while. Then what?

@Guenh-argent-dawn

What I would suggest

Didn’t ask, don’t tell me how to spend my time, thanks

[Envylin-argent-dawn]

@Guenh-argent-dawn

But it is actually an argument for a community law book, because it provides an avenue for everyone using the same rules.

It’s an argument for or against it. I lean toward against because you’re asking people WHO DON’T READ THE FORUMS to accept something THEY MIGHT NOT BE AWARE EVEN EXISTS.

Creating something to fill a void that wasn’t there to begin with doesn’t really make for a good argument.

[Tenasa-argent-dawn]

But I am told that if I don’t like it, to ignore it. Can you not see the issues this is now creating?
A division is already being created.

[Tenebries-argent-dawn]

Moderators who are expected to ensure that people within the community stay respectful to each other and help resolve disputes and those moderators are multiple. Simple as that.

[Envylin-argent-dawn]

@Tenebries-argent-dawn

Moderators who are expected to ensure that people within the community stay respectful to each other and help resolve disputes and those moderators are multiple. Simple as that.

Nowhere in the post has there been any mention of this until just now, and in fact the opposite has - “If you don’t like it, put them on ignore” is poor advice

[Obilot-argent-dawn (Obilot)]

@Guenh-argent-dawn

The important part here is the ‘if they want’ part. It’s not forced on anyone. The lawbook will likely never ever even come up for you if you don’t decide to specifically bring your crime RP to the King’s Footmen.

The big question is what happens to those who don’t want to follow it.

Will they be put on ignore, eventually? The thing is that lawbooks need a certain amount of “legitimacy” to function. And what happens when the legitimacy of the guild itself is being questioned? Are you prepared to give up your lawbook and your IC positions if the roleplay turns against you? Or will you strive to remain in function?

In short, are you prepared to lose? Or will you use OOC measures to avoid this?

[Leonpor-argent-dawn]

Literally one of the reasons this forum exists is to raise awareness regarding the lawbook. Even if someone doesn’t read the forum, word spreads around.