800 sounds indeed low but the long queue time is because of the MMR and not CR iirc?
You could have this in the M+ solo queue as well. Like if you fail to time too many dungeons, even tho you keep your M+ score, you get queued with people on your MMR level?
Simply according to “PvE rules”, say you timed a +9 then you are qualified to do a +10. And when and IF you time a +10, you will be qualified to do +11, there is no backwards relegation here.
So the soloQ system is easily “played around”. Buy boosts to time +9s and presto “guaranteed” access to soloQ +10…and condolences to people who will get grouped with the guy who was probably /afk while being boosted in a +9.
Comparison to now. Any serious party leader, checks also your m+ progress in general, how much runs done in said lvl, how many times and depletes. So boostees can easily get flagged and filtered out.
A system wont be able to filter these people out. “If you were in a group which timed a +9, you are ready for +10”. So they will flood the +10s range without any real method to “downgrade them back to their level”.
See where I am going now? Not only do you need content with rando comps and people, but also you could have people there who dont actually belong there but are just sitting there and fishing for “free boost to the next level”, cause you cant go back…only forward.
Under PvP rules = if you fail +10s, you should be relegated to +9s…keep failing there and you keep being relegated down further till you start winning again.
I just hope I didnt give boosters a new market to work in “Get your +9s timed for perma season access to +10s!”
It’s the amount of players. Because there’s barely any people that are at that mmr and continue playing, they probably don’t enjoy pvp that much when they’re that bad at it. Over 3 hours of queuing we encountered 6 different people. First was 2 keyboard turning DKs that you could just run around and they couldn’t hit you because they couldn’t keep you in front of them. 3 & 4 was a holy paladin & hunter, the holy paladin wore a 2h strength weapon and the hunter was bm but had no pet. 5 & 6 was warrior & rogue, I soloed them alone while wearing only a pvp weapon, all other slots were unequipped, while they were wearing full gear.
And then what? We get a massive flood of people taking to the forums just like in cata? 
The people you encounter in the current m+ system are gods compared to the people that will flood into the automatic queue.
I’ll never forget when I thought I’d do a quick nzoth kill in LFR back in BFA. I joined LFR and like 80% of the raid got mind controlled instantly because they didn’t have the cloak. Like, bruh. It was easier to do on heroic with pugs than on LFR.
Does the RIO addon show all that or do you have to do that manually?
Because I never did that manually, there is no time for that.
If we take dps for example, technically the system could compare their damage (which is probably gonna be extremely low, right?) to the average damage of other people and if it’s way too low, it will give those people some specific sort of MMR and queue them with similar bad people.
But more important, why exactly is it a problem in solo queue? We experience that now too and seems like nobody is really complaining about it?
I honestly don’t know how forums looked on Cata and what exactly was the issue there, therefore I can not really comment.
Ehhh… I really highly doubt it 
I would really have to make the experience myself first because what I’ve seen would probably make 99% of people here already uninstall the game.
A lot of people were unable to finish cataclysm heroic dungeons at the start. People started whining that they couldn’t finish it and they nerfed it to the ground due to the amount of people crying about it.
Like, there’s balancing and then there’s what happened in cataclysm where they just obliterated the difficulty.
Ahhh yeah I remember! The dungeons before the nerfs. Ngl that was probably one of the most fun times in WoW I ever had. I wish we would have something like that again, maybe like real hardmode stuff (not like the current one) for all the dungeons.
But the whole point of an automated queue system is not to filter people out, but to create a design that allows them to play and participate.
I mean, why do people buy boosts in the first place? Why do people buy Cutting Edge for raiding? Why do people buy +10s for Mythic+?
It’s to get into groups.
The PuG environment is so ruthless in the requirements it sets for inviting players, that many feel it’s necessary to get boosted in order to improve their characters enough that they’ll be invited for groups.
That’s a terrible experience.
Boosting exists by virtue of the play experience being so inaccessible that many players can’t see any other way than to get a boost.
If people could realistically play and progress their way to a +10 through their own ability – without getting constantly rejected when applying for groups – then they wouldn’t drop millions of gold on boosts. They wouldn’t have to.
Boosting is a problem with the current LFG system because players get rejected all the time.
No one gets rejected in an automated queue system. The machine will find an appropriate group for everyone that will present a realistic path to progress.
There’s little need for boosts in such an environment.
…Christ, I should go to bed. 
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That’s actually a very good point.
But I would also have never thought someone would dislike solo queue system because of boosting, that’s like the least problem if Blizzard wanted to implement it.
Rio shows your score(obviously), dungeons done in a bracket(for example timed +7s-+9s = 45, timed +10-11s = 20 and etc). If an applicant peeks my interest, I can also copy its raider io profile link(addon provides that as well) and quickly check it more details.
For me, to vet an applicant…takes maybe 2-4 minutes.
There are classes which perform better on imba pulls than others. Also dps depends on tanks route.
So technically. The mantra of soloq “no bias” but at the same time, we will introduce a tier list for it? Cause not all DPS have the exact same damage profile. For example, I cant beat a DKs damage in flood when tanks make big pulls, no matter what I do, my damage profile simply doesn’t allow it. So the system we will use it against me…even though I ace on ST and smaller packs.
Because its usually the fault of the party leader for doing poor vetting. But besides that point. You also have the ability to inspect your fellow team members and make a judgement call. For example back when I was tanking in pugs, I use to check the healer and decide if he is up to the task and will the dps comp do the numbers I expect to pull around. If I have doubts, I can politely leave before the key starts. Same as me playing a dps, I saw a 665 warrior dps in group(who was getting a free boost from his tank friend). I simply decided to leave cause I am not in the mood to give free boosts.
SoloQ system, wont give you that option. You click->you get ported in->maybe 30 sec timer to get your bearings to understand what dungeon it is and…good luck Mac.
As I tried explaining to Jito. M+ is not normal/heroic dungeons where any person who has a monitor turned on, can succeed it so the soloQ works for it cause, it doesn’t matter what I get there, due to low “difficulty setting”, everything will work out there…and I do mean everything.
Because its a competitive game mode. Not your world questing or LFR. Where I agree, Blizzard has to do absolutely everything to make sure that every pigeon can get in and succeed in it.
Competitive game modes is where you test your skill and “fight for your place under the sun”. Blizzard has no obligation to make sure, I get curve, Edge, keystone master, hero, legend whatever. Thats my job to fight through and get there.
The soloQ doesnt “help me” me or any other real m+ runner to succeed in once again I repeat “a difficult end-game” content. All it does, it creates extra fear cause I am have no say whenever I will get a team member who knows his left and right foot…or expecting a free boost from me. Again in normal/heroic dungeons it doesnt matter, I can just easily solo it…if needed. It doesnt mater if the guy is sitting at the entrance, picking his nose, I can do the run just without him if needed. In m+…it doesnt work that way. I cant do all interrupts, I cant do the amount of 3 dpsers…as 1 dps and expect the key to be timed(Unless I am seriously outgearing it and its a +2 then…maybe).
You can preach “accessibility and free entrance” to easy, story-mode level content and it will succeed there but not end-game difficult content.
I think Blizzard’s design intention is that the serious competitive part of it start at +11.
Everything below that is family entertainment for the masses.
It’s for the mounts, the titles, the portals, the gear drops, and the weekly vault.
It’s supposed to get lots of people to run some +8s and +10s every week and stay subscribed for many months so they can upgrade all their gear to Mythic and Blizzard can get a lot of money.
It’s a major selling point for WoW’s Seasons that you subscribe and get in and do a lot of Mythic+ and get all these cool rewards and have a great time. It’s a retention scheme.
The actual competitive part of Mythic+ starts beyond all those cheap temu rewards. And an automated queue shouldn’t cover that.
An automated queue system is really just for getting the masses through Disneyland, so to speak.
I wouldn’t say raiding is competitive. I would say Mythic raiding is.
And I wouldn’t say Mythic+ dungeons are competitive. I would say beyond +11 is.
I now remember it had this kind of information you just mentioned but I found it kinda useless for my purpose that’s why I deleted the addon.
But it does not show in-time and failed dungeons for that specific dungeon (like the one he queues right now), right?
Ye but the comparison would happen for same class and same specs and even tho the tank pulls are relevant, there still would be a kind of an average value (once enough data is in the game) while a boostee would always be far,far below that, right?
Just like you can see now, let’s say in DB11 good damage for a MM hunter is around 6mil overall dps, if a guy on the same ilvl does only 2, then something is clearly wrong.
That’s why the comparison has to be of the same class, spec and ilvl, not just dps as a role. Just the same way you have it on wowlogs in raids.
Well it’s not that easy tho. Some people just leave the queue before you are done checking them. It just takes too long.
And I do understand that, if I queue for a 10 for vault for example, I queue like 5 different dungeons and before some guy starts to checking me, someone else invites me and I am already gone.
At some point the leader will stay with what? Undesired players? It’s not like the queue is full of good players and they are all patient and wait for the leader to check them.
That’s the main problem with the pug scene. You can’t really communicate skill and experience when applying for a group. And the data (even tho bad) we have, takes way too long to check.
Well, I get where you are coming from but I am pretty sure it is going to fix itself the higher you go. Or maybe you even have already kind of a restriction for ilvl, so you can’t join too undergeared. I’d also expect not stacking same specs and/or classes (unless there is a clear lack of players and you get a notice if you are fine with that, like when you wait too long for a low lvl dungeon when you chose a timeline)… and some other basic stuff, like having BL and CR.
When I try to think of solo queue, I am trying to think if there is anything that’s actually gonna be worse than what we have right now. And only one thing came up to my mind and that’s if it was an actual “pure solo queue”, means you can’t join with a friend. But even that would be not a deal breaker for me personally.
Guardian druid tank(only one with a short interrupt)
Holy/disc priest healer(no interrupt)
Spriest DPS(long interrupt)
Moonkin DPS(long interrupt)
MM hunter DPS(semi-long interrupt)
Have fun with interrupts, I wouldn’t want to be in that group as any role.
This comp is completely fine tho and you can time everything with that to quite a high key level.
I had much worse compositions doing 12s with pugs and timing them.
It’s really not. You’d likely wipe to people overlapping interrupts if it’s auto-queued content.
In the end it’s the player and not the class. I had bunch of SBA players on good specs and not utilizing their utilities at all while barely interrupting. (had like an arcane mage with 2 interrupts in the entire dungeon and not a single cc)
This would definitely not scare me and avoid the solo queue.
Not really.
Holy priest is squishy. Moonkin is squishy. Holy priest can’t babysit a moonkin to save them, they need to save themselves. It’s a nightmare playing with moonkins if your own survival is an issue as well. It’s a really bad pairing.
Even a que system won’t fix the Biggest Problem, there are to much DPS and not enough Tank+ Heal Players
100%, always player over class.
Even if you get a bad comp that you dislike, it’s fine, you just go next. Or maybe you will be surprised and learn that it actually works.
That’s the thing right now as well, people avoid certain classes/specs because they have no experience or made only bad experiences.
Me and my friends were looking for HoA 12-13 for my friend who needed it to unlock resi keys. Out of like 15 groups there was only one single group that still needed a healer and tank, rest only needed dps.
There are currently 7 groups that need dps in the whole EU region and have a tank and healer.
56 groups that need a tank.
57 groups that need a healer.
38 that needs both.