It’s 4:30 
I know it’s crazy but there are really tanks and healers who are sleeping.
So do DPS.
The ratios aren’t really any better in the day. On the whole of EU there are 166k registered healers on rio.
517k dps.
188k tanks.
This means, even if everyone(If not taking into account that some are alts since we don’t know how many are alts) was online at the same time and wanting to form a group at the same time, almost 70k dps wouldn’t be able to get a group due to tank & healer population being too low.
Just from this alone it would make it a very long queue for DPS considering m+ runs can take anywhere from 15-60 minutes or longer. If I had to wait that long to play one dungeon, I think I would probably just unsub instead of staying subbed.
Just checked 12-13 and there wre 10 groups without tank/heal and 8 with tank and/or heal. And several just formed completely (like 4?) while I was counting.
It’s actually very good for this time imo.
Uhm… no^^
This would mean there is a slight healer shortage and more tanks can’t play than dps.
Not sure how you counted but you need 3 dps per group.
You have 166k healers, that means you need 166k tanks and 498k dps players. Leaves you with 22k tanks who can’t play and 19k dps.
Gl getting into +10s in 690 itlv now as a DPS . Hell GL getting into +10,s now as 690 tank or healer even though lfg 
If reddit “rumours” are to be believed always then we would had ww3 by now and the world would had been burning to the ground .
I take everything on social media with a grain of salt including reddit .
Blizzard sends surveys from time to time doesnot mean they will implement each and everything in survey if they get positive response
LFR was added in catas last patch, dragon soul. Not Wotlk.
And the main issues with it is often attributed to other things than “everyone sucks”.
The default group size of 25 that’s not dividable by 2.
You spawn in with disorganised groups with a god knows who being given the leader role so can’t sort to properly manage whatever encounter.
Bosses being given too much health with no mechanics.
Wings taking too long resulting in people being exhausted by the point they hit the 3rd boss. Bonus that boss loot is rewarded on boss-by-boss basis rather than at dungeon completion, so have fun repeatedly spawning in on the 3rd boss.
The too long thing is pretty much why cataclysm dungeons were “too hard” as well, especially the repurposed troll raids. Split most of them in two and it would have been perfectly fine.
Only way I would do Mythic/M+ dungeons would be if they removed the timer and added them into the dungeon finder, before that happens I’ll never do them 
you mean the same ww3 which is defacto ongoing since 2022 ?
have you even seen what happened in china 2 days ago with leaders of Brics ?
But even then its not the same. Boss logs are more consistent, because the bosses act the same so you can compare between them.
M+ runs are different. No m+ run is exactly the same as the other. For example, I can do the same dungeon with 2 separate runs on exact same keylevel. 1 run - my overall DPS would be : 3M(just an example), then 2nd run and my overall DPS suddenly is 6M.
Now…was I “asleep at the wheel” on the 1st run and suddenly woke up on the 2nd? Nop, first run - tank pulled chaotically which forced me to desynch my CDs - aka pulled small when I was blasting and pulled big when I had nothing available to me.
2nd run = Tank pulled around my CDs and allowed me to go ham on big pulls and played conservatively when I was low.
In raids such scenarios doesn’t happen. At worst you can get a worse parse if you are very unlucky with mechanics(get spammed with stop dps as mele and move away to China type of mechanics).
Doesn’t the “pro-soloQ” mantra include the down with elitism. No tier lists! everyone is equal agenda?
But now, no class stacking, must have CR/BL. Pretty much classes with either CR or BL will get prio over those who dont cause those classes are in a minority. So all the warriors, spriests,rogues, what else…dps monks have to wait in queue longer since the system needs to find them a mage(BL) and pala(CR) to pair up with.
So you want soloQ because “meta slavery” but at the same time we have to program it with its own… “meta” when it makes the groups? 
Perhaps the word “competitive” is not the best to use. More like “difficult content where there is a real chance of failure”. On normal/HC you actually have to put in the effort to fail it.
And WoW already has that. We got normals, we got heroic dungeons, we got LFR. People see the whole story, see all the bosses, see all the chapters. There is no real difference between normal dungeon or m+10 lorewise. M+10 there is no secret lore chapters, special items or whatever. If anything your normal eco dome trinket is the same as a myth track trinket…ONLY difference being the numbers. No special “m+10 only cantrip or spell effects”. M+ gear dont even change their visuals from M0 gear(and I think HC and normal as well? have to check) comparing to raids which has LFR/normal/HC/Mythic recolours.
Continuing with your Disneyland analogy. M+ is not “the whole Disneyland”. WoW is and M+ is just 1 arcade game where you can either play it for fun(normals/HC) or you can play it for a high score and if you score very high - you can earn some super rare prizes(aka vault rewards).
And even in Disneyland, my dear Jito. They won’t give you arcade game prizes for free simply because you bought an entrance tricket.
People who want to go to Disneyland just go to Disneyland. They don’t sit around waiting for Disney to teleport them there and give them free merch.
You already said in a different thread you don’t like playing with other people. So you yourself wouldn’t even use this Solo Queue.
It’s like Disney brining out a system to get people through Disneyland aimed at people who hate Disneyland and would never want to go there.
Let me resume the problem here.
This is my logic:
- People cannot play because there is a lack of healers/tanks. We need more healers and tanks. We need class tuning or change the reward structure to encourage more people to play healers/tanks.
Once you get ~ a 1-1-3 distribution of rolls of the playerbase then there will be no more waiting. DONE.
- What is a SoloQ? : It is an algorithm that has the goal of optimizing the pool of players such that they get grouped up better.
And my disagreement with such a system is that if you have 100 people that need to get into a key. But you only have 10 slots to put them in. You can play around with the algorithm all you want. You can choose any metrics. Nothing will change.
Its the typical problem of: You got 100 balls and only 10 holes to put them in. There are 62815650955529472000 different ways to take 10 balls out of the 100 and fit them into 10 holes.
But there will ALWAYS be, in ALL of those 62815650955529472000 combinations, 90 balls that remain with out a hole.
There is only ONE way to fit 100 balls into a hole. And that is: Make 100 holes. One for each ball.
Does a sorting/matchmaking algorithm make more holes? It dosent. So its a waste of time. It fixes nothing.
There is no such a thing as “meta specs”. That dosent exist. The “meta specs” are the COMPONENTS of the meta comp.
One example (out of many I can give) : Why was Enh meta in S1? Was it because it did the most DPS? NOPE. It wasent. It was because it had a 2 min Ascendance that paired perfectly well with Aug Ebon Might and PI. And THAT is how they made obscene levels of DPS. Take away the Aug and the Priest and Enh was #4 in top DPS in AoE. Bellow things like Arms warriors that were not meta.
The point is the in high keys, people dont want the “meta specs”. People want the “meta comp”. So. You got 4 players PLAYING the meta comp, by playing the specs of said comp. And they want the 5th COMPONENT of said comp.
Homework keys have nothing to do with the affixes. Homework keys are the equivalent of wipes in raid progression. The more difficult the encounter, the more wipes you need to practice said encounter.
Its not rocket science…
Maybe. But what about your suggestion of the SoloQ where you first have to do a 2+ to do a 3+ and so on. What happens when you start late to the party? Who will play that 2+ with you if everyone else is already doing +10s?
I would say this is arguably worse. Because in the system we have now, you can atleast get some friends to do the +10s with you straight away.
Re-playable content, that’s right. That is what Matchmaking Dungeons were supposed to be. That failed. So they made up M+ as the next better option to the failed Matchmaking Dungeons. And it has withstood the test of time. Matchmaking Dungeons did not even last 1 season before they were nerfed to the ground because of all the whining.
??? They got videos. They stream on Discord. If you want to contradict me, then verify the job yourself. Or give me the name. Dont just “probably” me…
You keep confusing high keys and low keys. In low keys, there is no “meta comp” or “meta specs” and I just proved it to you. And “I cant do math”? I just added up the numbers. To claim that I am wrong, you should have added them up yourself and compare the numbers.
So there is no need to put a SoloQ algorithm to force people IN LOW KEYS to take “off-meta” specs. Because there is no such problem.
It’s definitely a better indicator than WCLogs. ESPECIALLY if you are somehow trying to interpolate raid performance with M+ performance.
I read on other posts you are using WCLogs to pick people in PuGs. It is the most moronic thing I have ever heard. Especially from someone that claims that RIO, completed dungeons, and experience means nothing.
Well WCLogs means even less. And you are wasting your time with that.
For starters, to have data in WCLogs you, the player, needs to upload it. Unlike Raider IO that simply takes the API from all the toons.
And second, not everyone raids. And even less people Mythic Raid, which is where logs can be semi-reliable.
Anyone that PuGs the Heroic raid to get gear will have terrible Logs. Anyone that is in a “F&F heroic guild” will also have terrible logs. Anyone that Pugs M+ will have random terrible logs. Across any level, independent of what their personal level of performance is.
Which basically means that you are excluding a TON of capable people from your groups. Because of metrics that are simply false, or misleading.
Asking a computer to take those faulty, misleading, and bad metrics for you implies that the computer will also exclude a ton of people for no reason.
I play with 2 buddies. My M+ metrics will be better than someone that dosent play with 2 buddies and strictly PuGs. Even if that person is technically as skilled than I am, he will get a lower “score” and paired up with less skilled people. People that dont match his skill.
With RIO, we both have ~ the same score. So we end up in ~ playing the same key levels. This is much more accurate than WCLogs. Still imperfect. But more perfect than WCLogs.
I am glad we can agree on something.
But you fail to grasp the message of that paragraph: RIO is bad data (A). And WCLogs is even WORSE data (B).
The difference is that RIO can be looked at in 5 seconds. WCLogs takes 5 minutes to look at. If you use bad data RIO (A) you will get bad results. If you use WCLogs data (B), which are even worse, you will not get better results than by looking at its RIO directly. And you wasted 5 minutes of your time.
And here is the catcher: Lets get an algorithm to do the work for us. Like I did.
------------- The conclusion --------------
If that matchmaking algorithm takes bad data. It will spit out bad results.
------------- Read this carefully ---------
There is a second alternative. Maybe you are bad at math.
Really? Are you challenging me? Did I also tell you that I used to participate in the GitHub repository for the Warrior Simulator? Among other things…
But either way. Here is the thing. An algorithm is deterministic, and it will impose its “faulty” results on EVERYONE. And you cant do anything about it.
If you PuG the raid. Or fail a key because someone else did not kick a cast… then you have faulty data. And will get a lower score than similarly skilled players, and cant do anything about it.
Is that what you want?
Yes you can. That is what RIO is. Its an average of said metric. And that is what # of completed dungeons above a key-level is used for.
If you cannot measure ONE specific parameter, sometimes an average gives you better results. Because the average of similar metrics get their variance reduced.
And that is why Rio works better than WCLogs.
SO? You want a computer to do basic social work for you? Is this what this thread is all about?
Just man up and make a schedule. You have more than 1 friend in RL. And you dont meet with all of them simultaneously all the time.
And sometimes you want to meet with a friend but he is busy doing something else. And sometimes someone wants to meet you but you are busy with something else. So what?
Buy an agenda. Like the rest of us.
Jito and Draegor, I have a question for you. Lets implement your SoloQ idea. With this sort of “MMR” matchmaking.
I am a player that is currently doing +13s. And I have done the whole stair from a 2+ all the way here.
What happens if I decide that this week I dont feel like doing +13s anymore. I want to do a +10. Or a +8 because I need some Hero gear. I select +10 or a +8 difficulty. And I enter the Matchmaker.
What I want to know is what is going on behind this algorithm. You said on previous posts that it will have some “metric” on your performance. Its supposed to match you with similarly skilled players.
Would I get insta-invited because I have a “100% good” MMR metric? Or would I get simply put on an equivalent level to everyone else and simply wait. Or would I have to wait an eternity until other people with similar MMR to mine quew up.
How would that work?
Microsoft copilot can give a transcript of a recorded meeting and even produce minutes and an action list.
We used it yesterday in a pretty long meeting about a complicated project and the boss was “very impressed” with what it produced and he was quite sceptical beforehand.
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ye plaing with random retards who arent invited to keys because they use one button rotation is great thing to implement.
If beating LFR qualified you for Mythic gear in your weekly Vault, and the Seasonal mount and title and portals came from doing all the dungeons on Heroic, then you know what? Cool! Then I wouldn’t sit here talking about an automated queue system or anything else, because then Mythic+ would well and truly be a niche competitive mode for a small select audience of players seeking a real dungeon challenge in which overcoming a brutal difficulty is a reward in itself.
But it just so happens that Blizzard stuffs Mythic+ with rewards like it was a turkey for thanksgiving. And they obviously do that in order to make Mythic+ popular for the masses. It’s not just a feature for the best of the best of the best. It’s for your average Joe who Blizzard lures with the prospect that if he can do a +10 he can get a Mythic item in his weekly Vault.
It’s for the mount collectors who Blizzard presents an exclusive FOMO mount to and tells them to get cracking on those Mythic+ keys if they want it.
It’s for the completionists who look at achievements, titles, portals, and other gimmick participation trophy rewards and feel compelled to get in on the action lest they lose out.
And because Blizzard wants to attract all these people to Mythic+ – these masses – then Blizzard are also obligated to ensuring that the feature is accessible to them (otherwise they get a bit grumpy). Ergo why they’re now trying to improve the Group Finder (and I suspect in the future they’ll implement an automated queue system as the ultimate solution).
If we just get rid of all those fancy and alluring rewards for Mythic+, so the masses won’t bother with the feature at all, then we don’t have to do a damn thing about Group Finder or bother with an automated queue system at all.
But as far as I can see, Blizzard aren’t exactly floating that idea in their surveys. In fact, they seem to want to make the feature even more popular for every child, woman, and fish that plays World of Warcraft by promising extra valorstones, crests, and what not if you get in on the action.
That’s just taking advantage of the fact most people want what they can’t have. If Blizzard just gives everyone everything they will probably never use it.
None of the M+ “rewards” are even that great. It’s all about the fun I had on the journey.
There are faster and easier ways to feel “rewarded” than a portal to a dungeon.
I am not sure where this weird idea is coming from that “absolutely everyone has the right to a mythic loot piece”. Like c’mon, the Golden era of Wotlk(vanilla wotlk), like 10% saw a normal LK kill? Or was it 25%?..and a lot less a heroic LK kill. Yet as much I remember forums from then. There weren’t complaint posts such as “I pay the sub too so Blizzard need to give me heroic LK gear as well!!!”.
Even now on FFXIV for example. The gear you get from “normal” raids is like 10 ilevels or something lower than savage and if you want the best of the best gear - you have to do savage raids. And savage raids are done maybe by 5% of the whole playerbase? …yet nobody is screaming their lungs out that square enix forums that “they should get best of the best gear as well because they pay the sub as well”.
So this begs the question. Where does this entitlement come from in WoW where Blizzard needs to hand out highest level gear as some kind of welfare payment?
Want the best of the best gear? Well work for it then - and nobody is promising it to be an easy ride. Other game’s players seems to understand this concept just fine. Yet some in WoW’s community…has issues with this.
I have no problem working for rewards, my problem is the hassle of forming a group. If that can be taken away from me by automated matchmaking, I’m all for it. Which is ironic coming from me as I advocate for RPG elements and this does make me a hypocrite but with how wow turned out right now, we might as well double down.
Get rid of them then. Problem solved. Won’t need this discussion then. Only the pros who care about challenges will do Mythic+ then – like you – and they’ll all want to group with each other because they’re all so pro, so the whole situation would solve itself. Easy peasy.
So we suggest this to Blizzard instead?
That’s not what I said.
I said that Blizzard dangles the biggest carrot in front of the playerbase, and they dangle it in Mythic+. That’s pretty obvious to see. Players feel compelled to run their weekly Mythic+ because the carrot they get from doing that is highly desirable (gear).
The same isn’t true for Pet Battles. I don’t see the entire playerbase out there doing their daily Pet Battle quests for extras Polished Pet Charms. But if Pet Battles rewarded Mythic gear – everyone and their mom would be doing them!
So the carrots matter as far as directing the playerbase toward one gameplay activity or another.
And Blizzard puts a lot of carrots in Mythic+, evidently because they want a lot of the playerbase to be doing Mythic+.
And that’s fine, but it comes with the obligation on Blizzard’s part that Mythic+ then also needs to be designed to accommodate the playerbase at large and not just the few pros. Ergo why they’re doing the survey and preparing changes for the Group Finder. That’s not because of issues the pros have with getting into groups. It’s because of issues the broader playerbase has.
All I’m alleging in that regard is that this issue is ultimately not solved by giving players a couple more valorstones or crests, but by implementing an automated queue system. And I think Blizzard will ultimately reach that conclusion as well (after having tried every other option available to them…).
This is the character I play so as you can see I’ve only done up to +10 which is the “Disneyland” level. I’m pro now?
I said I play for fun. I’m not some dopamine starved junkie who needs a few portals and a mount to stop my withdrawal. I don’t get withdrawal.