His nonsense is effective though.
He’s like a baseball pitcher who never throws into the strike zone. If you don’t swing it’s his fault for such a bad pitch but if you swing and miss it’s a strike.
I just swing and swing and swing.
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I’ll do a little bit of advertisement for an automated queue system, just for the heck of it. Then you can advertise Group Finder perhaps?
Accessibility
The Group Finder has some accessibility issues. If you’re a newcomer, a returning player, or someone who hasn’t done much Mythic+ before, it can be quite the jungle to navigate through.
There is the WTS spam and the tips culture. If you haven’t experienced it before it’s a pretty negative first impression.
There are a lot of abbreviations that players use to communicate, that aren’t super intuitive for the uninitiated.
You have to navigate a system in which everything is presented as available to you. Do you want to do a +2 or +6 or +12? If you’re not very familiar with Mythic+ it’s not immediately obvious what key to start at and when to progress to the next one.
An automated queue system simplifies all that. You can only choose the key levels you qualify for by having beaten the prior key levels, and the process of getting into a Mythic+ dungeon doesn’t require more than pressing the queue button.
Speed
I actually did a car analogy on this before, but there’s no need for that.
Let’s say you have 10.000 players in Group Finder and they all need to get into groups for Mythic+. How long time does it take for all 10.000 players to get into a group? Well let’s say the average wait time is 8 minutes per player, so that’s 80.000 minutes the Group Finder is processing in order to get all these players into a Mythic+ dungeon.
Will an automated queue system be able to process 10.000 players for Mythic+ dungeons faster than the manual Group Finder can? Yes. This is literally what we use computer software systems for. Managing large data volumes and processing them swiftly. People don’t beat computers on processing numbers, and at a large volume players are just numbers. So the average wait time will be lower with an automated queue system by virtue of the volume of data that’s being processed in total.
Efficiency
What the player wants is to go from getting the desire to run a Mythic+ dungeon and then doing the Mythic+ dungeon, with as few steps in-between as possible.
It’s not exactly an enjoyable experience to apply for groups, whisper group leaders, wait for summons, or fly to an instance. It’s just time consumption that occupies all your attention.
With an automated queue system that all goes away. You press to queue, you wait (and whilst you wait you can even do other things – no attention needed), and the moment your group is ready, you’re in!
It cuts out all the in-between, all the middle-men, which is why automated queue systems are so popular in gaming. They get players into the gameplay action immediately with no fuzz.
Fairness
This is a big one.
Group Finder is a zero sum experience. It’s like Tinder. If you look like roadkill it doesn’t matter how long time you spend on Tinder – you’re not going to get a match.
Likewise, if you’re a newbie who wants to start doing Mythic+ dungeons half-way through the Season with no prior experience and gear consisting of Heroic and Outdoor items – you’re not getting into any groups.
And it’s because it’s a zero sum setup. A group leader who has 50 players asking to join has only one incentive: To invite the best candidate.
The players who are quick to farm gear and get a solid rating when a new Season start will be the supermodels of WoW – they will easily get into groups because they are the best of the field.
It doesn’t matter if the newbie or n00b spends an extraordinary amount of time in Group Finder, they’re still not going to be the best candidate when they apply to a group, so they’re never getting invited. No one looks at 10 players applying for their group and picks the worst one out of pity. No, you pick the best player. Always.
An automated queue system is not zero sum by design. It can actually allocate all players into groups and give everyone the same fair and reasonable wait times. It can put together many good groups consisting of lots of players, versus the Group Finder that largely puts together over-qualified groups, and few of them.
In summary
The above reasons are why Blizzard will eventually end up settling for an automated queue system. All that really speaks against it is the development resources it takes to create – something Blizzard doesn’t have in abundance these days. And it’s always easier for the developers to maintain what already exists than to build something new.
And then there’s the social aspect. Blizzard have pushed for increased socialization in WoW for quite some time now, and fostering social experiences through making groups (through Group Finder or Communities or Friends List) is something Blizzard obviously desires.
It just seems to me that ultimately Blizzard will have to put in the development effort to make an automated queue system, because the situation with Group Finder seems untenable (hence the survey). And I don’t believe bribing players with some extra Valorstones will make much of a difference.
And I also don’t think Blizzard will succeed with their socialization experiment. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. And Blizzard can put in all these social features and systems to encourage players interacting with each other, but it doesn’t seem to me that players care very much for it. Blizzard will eventually realize this.
Sure and they will also realize that that for soloQ to work, it needs the amount of tanks and healers to do it. So far it does it not appear appealing to tanks and healers who can just cherry pick their own groups or run their own keys and invite “meta of the meta, best of the best hardcore DPsers”.
Blizzard is not the smartest bunch I agree but hopefully they are not that dumb to build a bridge where there is no river…
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Would it be true solo though? As in you cannot queue with pals?
I got heated in a +10 went Maximum Gloober then after, Uda came online we got a group going with his friend and then I listed my +10 and invited the first two people (who by not coincidence were better than me) and we got a key going.
Is Solo Queue just for people signing up alone?
What I think tends to happen – and why I would sympathize a little bit with those who don’t want an automated queue system – is that one system cannibalizes another. And the accessible and efficient system tends to cannibalize the one less so.
PvP is probably a good example when Solo Shuffle was brought in.
The PvP veterans who had already established themselves in 3v3 had no incentive to move over to Solo Shuffle where they weren’t in control of their groups. You might think that would be a detriment to Solo Shuffle, but it hasn’t been. It’s the more popular system today. Players just gravitate – overwhelmingly – toward accessibility and efficiency.
When Blizzard added a queue system to dungeons in WotLK the manual grouping practically vanished overnight. You could argue that tanks and healers didn’t have to get involved in that system when they could literally (like today) pick the best DPS manually for their own groups. But still everyone gravitated toward the queue system.
It’s the same in other games in my experience. Players are drawn by accessibility and efficiency. Doesn’t really matter if they’re tanks, healers, meta players, or pros.
I’m not arguing for a solo queue system. Just an automated queue system. If you want to queue with 4 friends, go ahead.
I think Blizzard encourages playing with friends, and it’s weird to limit that option for no real reason. So I don’t see why a queue system for Mythic+ dungeons should be solo queue only.
If you factor in it being solo as in I cannot sign up with my pals what’s the point?
The magic of M+ is get some pals and if it’s not enough pug it. I love playing tank and pugging so I can go solo but for me the magic is that people choose me.
I saw a 2.1k Resto listing their +10 and I thought:
“100% this person invites me”
and they did! It’s the magic of the secret Druid bias. You better believe we timed that key.
Non solo is pointless then because there are always industrious people who will just make friends with tanks and/or healers even if they hate playing those roles because it lets them skip the queue.
People becoming friends in a video game is not a bad thing.
Are you mistakenly under the impression I said that it was a bad thing?
I’m going to bed.
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I need to go to bed too.
People love to pretend that m+ is really hard
M+ isn’t hard. It’s just gear level and (team) play execution. Both factors can compensate each other to some extent. But exceeding in both makes it easy, yes.
As for the matchmaking idea, it wouldn’t fail because of the gameplay but peoples expectations.
Na, not really. Even at around 3 or 4 AM when I was just counting groups, like 4 groups formed before I finished counting. The number is quite low and irrelevant. If you experienced that from several roles, you’d know.
Do you even notice what quoted? It’s about GAME MODE and you come with dps/tanks/heal waiting times? What do you want me to answer to that? I mean besides that you already simply make it up and ignore the fact how some healers can’t even join a group…
That’s pure bs. I queue as tank/heal for the bags with gold, which means healers and tanks are extremely wanted and even then I wait 20+ minutes. There is no instant invite.
But more important: This is an undesirable game mode and can’t be compared to M+
Because it’s not true lmao and you compare bananas to apples and wonder why the banana is not round 
Anyways I won’t read the rest and repeat to it because you already, once again, started to lose yourself in quotes and fail to read properly while on top can’t even put down a simple comparison that actually makes sense.
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Honestly, I wrote a long post answering all your points. But I deleted everything.
However. I literally only need to quote this:
DUDE. READ… YOUR… OWN… POST…
WHY? What does “extremely wanted” actually mean.
And why does blizzard want to give you extra gold to quew as a tank/healer? What goal do they want to achieve? What is that “gold incentive” FOR?
And WHY dont the DDs ever get the gold incentive? What would happen if you quewed as a DD instead. How much would you wait? The same as a healer/tank? Then WHY dont DDs get gold bags too?
I mean… I am asking a ton of questions. But the answer should be dumb obvious by now. And you said it YOURSELF… “tanks/healers are extremely wanted”. Because DDs have to wait too long to in the quew. So they try to incentivize more tanks/healers to play to get more dungeons started so more DDs get to play.
Well same thing happens in M+. Its not rocket science!
So TLDR: You dont seem to have the neurons available to understand the basic issues of the problem. The shortage is with respect to the other rolls. Not with respect to the completed keys.
Il leave it at that.
Good day.
No one disputes this.
All that’s being said is that Blizzard should add an automated queue system in spite of it, not because of it.
There are disproportionately more damage-dealers than there are tanks and healers. That appears to be true everywhere in the game. That’s just how it is.
An automated queue system is still a good idea - for a number of reasons that have been mentioned - even if it doesn’t address the disproportionality between roles.
Perfect is the enemy of good. And an automated queue system can be a good system even if it isn’t a perfect system.
Yet it fails to adress the main reason why some people want it - faster queues for them.
It wont genererate faster queues…it could actually make them even longer.
So we are building a bridge where there is no river and doesnt actually have any function or reason to be there…but you still want to build it anyway because its “pretty”?
I explained to you previously why it would. I will copy/paste:
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I think the whole idea is that with an automated queue, people can sign up and just afk/wait/do other stuff and eventually get into a dungeon at some point. Doesn’t matter if it’s 2 hours later, at some point their place in the queue will be at the top. Instead of how it is now where u have to keep signing up and getting declined.
Those that think they will get shorter queues with an automated queue is just not willing to realise why they already have to wait.
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The automated system is supposed to fix the problems of LFG. Namely: Roll imbalance. <— This is the root cause of the problem of LFG:
- DDs wait too long.
- Selection bias of said DDs because there are so many of them.
That is the REASON to have a Matchmaking system.
That is the reason YOU gave to have a Matchmaking system. Its the reason Draegor and others give to promote a Matchmaking system.
So. TLDR:
Who said perfect? I never said perfect. I just said AT-LEAST it has to address the problems it’s supposed to solve! Otherwise, all you are doing is splitting the playerbase in 2 sections with no clear advantage to justify the drawbacks. Its the WORST option possible. For both systems.
Its like saying: The bridge is rusty and needs new beems. And you propose to paint over it. Sure… maybe it looks better. But the rust is still there! The bridge will still fall.