The problem with your reasoning is that you assume the tool will be effective and complete. Which is very unlikely. You think greedy Blizz will invest R&D for developing a brand new tool with integrated AI ? huhuhuhu, you’re a bit delusional.
Even in a very simple solo queue tool like heroics sometimes you are stuck in queue forever for no reason.
Now you have to add multiple conditions like :
having a BL, a Brez, a balanced composition between ranged and melee (what if you have SP, Lock, Moonkin enjoy your number of available kicks…)
What for some specific dungeon ? Like a poison dispel in Ara-Kara ?
On top of that, you need to be able to choose your exact key level and dungeon (even if my MMR is 2.5k, I want to be able to do a +2 if I feel like it).
So I tell you what will happen : the tool will not include all of this, resulting in lowering quality of groups, increasing key failure for solo queue users and decreasing numbers of groups for those who don’t use it, if not making completely disappear the regular LFG tool for low keys.
That’s exactly what happened with solo queue in arena.
I’ve never heard a pvp player saying the solo queue is nice. They all say it’s trash and destroyed arena because it’s not what it’s supposed to be.
We understand dps want to watch Youtube while waiting in line, but you have to think of further consequences.
I get it. But you dont seem to understand what the problem really is:
You explained you PoV perfectly to Extiase here:
Really? I mean… A SoloQ matchmaking system would ALSO include groups with 3 DDs in it. Or groups with 1 DD in it. Please. Go to the LFG right now. Tell me how many groups ONLY have DDs in them.
THOSE are the ones with really long wait times. <— THE PROBLEM.
The solution is to find a tank or a healer for THOSE groups. Not to match make existing healers/tanks groups.
Currently, groups that already have a tanks or a healer have minutes of wait time. You know why? Because healers/tanks get to pick and choose in LFG. And they will pick groups that already have 1 of those rolls. They know that by joining that group it will instantly start.
They do it, because they can. And I repeat. Inspite of this, people prefer to play DD anyways.
You dont believe me? Try it. Find a ret pala buddy. Post your key with 2 DDs. Lets see how long you wait. Then tell him to re-spec to Tank. And see how many healers instantly show up.
And by the way. I havent even began to discuss all those DDs that dont even post their keys. That simply “wait” to be invited.
I believe in the current environment an automated queue system would be more efficient and optimized for putting groups together than players currently are by doing it manually in LFG.
I understand the problem you’re describing and don’t disagree with the existence of it.
I just don’t perceive it as a zero sum matter.
An automated queue system can be a great addition to the game for a myriad of reasons, even if it doesn’t address the issue you’ve pointed out.
I also don’t think an automated queue system should try to address the issue you’re pointing out, because I don’t think it can. It’s an automated queue system, nothing more.
It doesn’t fail because it can’t solve the issue you’re pointing out, it succeeds because it solves a lot of other issues.
what they also know is that they wont be getting contasntat declines by every single billy or jimmy who has like 1k score but got his key boosted to +10 and now declines everyone because he wait only for unicorns 3k players signing to boost his boosted key and him .
What other issues does it solve Jito? And can those issues be solved with a simply QoL improvement in the current LFG?
Because the main drawback of making a parallel SoloQ is that it splits the community in 2. And that creates a TON of very serious problems for both SoloQ and LFG. So the benefits better be GOOD. Really GOOD to justify it.
So far, the only 2 arguments I have heard are:
The bias in DD selection. In other words, over-geared and over-rio players get to play in M+ and nobody else. <— Which is caused by over-supply of DDs, and can only be solved via roll tuning.
Convenience. Which can be solved with QoL improvements on the existing LFG tool.
I don’t see “a lot of other issues”… I dont see how a SoloQ would fix them… and I dont see an amazing benefit of having a paralell SoloQ.
I only see its massive drawback, and the fact that it dosent solve the main issue. Which is the reason WHY people want a soloQ to begin with.
It will still be shorter if the ilvl req will be not as ridiculous as in manual LFG and people will ignore meta. Statistically it will be faster just because of it.
The game is pretty lame now for alts as people invite only overgeared players
If at this point you are oblivious to what issues is being proposed that an automated queue system could address, then you’re simply not reading/acknowledging/understanding/comprehending what has already been said a thousand times over by me and others in this thread and elsewhere.
I refuse to entertain this merry-go-round ride for the thousandths and one time.
You can simply scroll up and read what has already been said.
So if this all there is left to this, I consider this discussion closed as well, as everything has already been said and interested parties can simply read through the discussion if they’ve forgotten what has been said.
yes i do have issue when i get like 20 declines in row by people with lower score then it has on my alts like prot warrior while at the same non stop reading nonsense how "easy " and "instant invites " tank have here on forums - quing as dps ? sweet jeez dont even want to imagine trying to push score on my melees if i wasnt playing tank on them
my 707 itlv 2500 + score Monk tank ? liek 10 declines beforre i got into ecodome 10 for 4th key of week .
seeing that constant red “decline” is a very negative experience - and blizzard has to do something about it eventually
95% of time in 10+ it’s 3k+ players who invite 3k+ tanks only. Not “jimmy 1k”.
Stop saying nonsense.
You get declines because you only tag in key with high rated players and have your free +10 and basically doing exactly what you criticize. I don’t blame it, it’s normal but open your eyes.
It’s very unlikely that a 2500 tank get 10 declines in a row for a +10 if you tag with 2k2-2k5.
Or maybe you have deserter debuff, or maybe too many people have blacklisted you, which wouldn’t be surprising knowing how you respect others.
All those other issues Jito are mainly caused by deficit of tanks and healers. Which me and Uda have been desperately trying to argument.
Even going back to explained reply in detail(wont obviously quote the entire thing) but the main points you made: Speed, Efficiency, Fairness - All the arguments try to appoint an issue which is directly caused by lack of tanks/healers. Its simply a consequence or a reaction to a cause and nothing more. There is simply not enough of them. So tank/healer party leaders can afford to be picky and pick the best candidates from a list of 50 while sole dps party leaders compete with other sole dps parties and hope they catch the attention of the tank or healer to join…and even then tank and healers can just be picky to whom to signup since they can judge the key holders rio, the groups composition and etc.
Your automated soloQ system WONT give birth to new tanks or healers.
Only your point of Accessibility aka…lack of info for new players, is not directly caused by the deficit but that can be easily fixed by in-game tooltips, dungeon journals and etc.
So unless the core issue gets addressed, arguing for or against soloQ is as meaningful as arguing “what colour should you paint your house’s walls…while the roof is on fire and is collapsing”.
Didnt I already tell you that if you are trying to get into a +10 as a rio 920 tank with ilevel 690 then you will get declined, mr. VoteSystemForcesMeTooBoostPeople?
Jito, I went through all your posts before already. And it went like this: The first ~ 50 posts we all put forward our stantements. And then 300 posts of arguing over them.
Lets go through your statements in the first 50 where you say what are the issues SoloQ is trying to solve:
Accessibility.
Speed of quew system. More accessibility and convenience.
Accessibility again.
So abasically. THE problem you want to solve with SoloQ is accessibility. You keep mentioning this over and over.
And you not ONLY fail to define what does accessibily mean exactly… but you keep saying “its what needs to be done”… BECAUSE… and that it will “innevitably happen”… because… reasons…
You dont DEFINE the problem properly. And your arguments are things like “its well established in other games”. Well other games dont have tanks/healer! And who cares about other games? Do they have to wait 2h to find a group too or not?
And when we, the community try to define WHAT the problem is (not enough tanks/healers means DD wais ages, and cant play the game they pay for) you argued against it for 300 posts!
And once we pointed out that “accessibily” dosent mean the convenience of pressing 1 button and waiting, as oposed to going through a list of people in LFG. Accessibility means: You log in, you want to play a dungeon, and you CANT. Because you are waiting for 2h in donorgal.
Its not about that LFG tool is hard or easy to use. It’s irrelevant how many buttons there are or who does the matchmaking. If you STILl wait 2h in Donorgal regardless of what tool you use, then you are not solving the “accessibiliy problem”.
THEN we point out how a SoloQ wont solve that. Because its a simply supply and demand problem here…
And then you say that I did not read all your posts, or understand them properly. Which I did… in detail Jito.
And you followed up by a “im done with this conversation”…
At least with an auto queue, they won’t be able to skip the key levels to get to the juicy weekly 10, they would have to meet the requirements of ilvl and previous keylevels to get into 10’s. So that’s a win I guess?
I have not disagreed with there being a deficit of tanks and healers.
I have argued that an automated queue system can put groups together with more speed, efficiency, and fairness, and in a more accessible format, than players can manually do in LFG.
I think (unless you object) we’ve settled on agreeing to disagreeing on this.
That doesn’t directly address the deficit of tanks and healers, but I’m not arguing that it would or that it should.
If your argument is that an automated queue system should be able to increase the number of tanks and healers, then that’s another matter we’ll agree to disagree on.
You can clarify your position on both points if you would like. I’ve accounted for mine, multiple times now.
