I’m not even going to bother reading the entirety of this thread because Jito, based upon the few responses that I’ve looked at, you are someone, who doesn’t take facts and put them into a coherent and a thoughtful process to understand the opinions of other people.
You are set in your ways of saying this has to be done because it’s what YOU want, because YOU were unable to do the content that’s in the game currently. And because YOU can’t do it, YOU want everything to be dumbed down or do you think it’s a good idea for the developers to spend time and resources on a system that will never be touched by the vast majority of the player base?
As Uda said earlier, you want to be able to do far easier mythic plus, but get the same type of items/gear, that’s dropping right now in the in the actual content. How to put it in a way which doesn’t insult you? It’s silly, OK, It’s silly!
I understand that people want to give out their opinions and their feedback, but sometimes the Internet is a very bad place because it’s given the ability for people to give their opinions and thoughts, which should never have been given in the first place.
What you want will never happen in World of Warcraft. They won’t add a mid-tier system for mythic plus to do mythic 2 to 10 at the same level as a normal or heroic dungeon. They’ll never do that! Furthermore, they’ve given you and the other players that can’t do the current content of mythic plus, your weekly chests to get your heroic gear. You have your delves to give you your hero gear from the vault aswell. If you’re unable to do the content that’s in the game currently at this moment in time, then it’s not content that you’re that you’re meant to actually participate in.
If you want to participate in said content, then learn how to develop your skills, how to tweak and tune them in a way that benefits the entirety of the group and yourself to progress through harder content. Because if you’re able to progress through the harder content, then you will actually find more enjoyment in the game because you’ll have a challenge.
Rather than sitting there with a blindfold on, pressing one key and saying “Am I winning daddy?
I mean a tie would be something like, you gain experience, you get your vault, maybe get even your BiS item but no M+ score. It’s a point of perspective.
The reality is that PvP is kinda dead due to lack of incentives and rating being meaningless. Therefore you match dps and healers separately. Usually, to reduce queue times you get a dps (or a few) on a MMR they don’t belong to. Or it is the opposite and you get one extremely good player who goes out 6:0.
The comps are rarely an issue in solo shuffle, most of the time it’s a skill “problem”, if anything.
Na that’s not true. I played solo shuffle when they had MMR scuffed and everything. I not once had a win rate below 60% on Druid and MW. On one of my alt MWs I got to 2,1k with around 83% win rate.
The reason I personally quit (just like my friends) is that there is literally no reason to play it. The “fun” part is not cutting it, solo bg is much more fun AND you can play it duo.
If solo shuffle had any incentives, I would have never touched PvE and still play PvP but 50 conquest points are a joke.
No, that’s the thing tho. You need to compare M+ solo queue to pugs like solo shuffle to random 3s.
Solo shuffle is MUCH better to heal than random 3s. If that translates to PvE then solo M+ queue will be much better to heal than pugs. Win-win.
Who cares? Then they don’t. But I highly doubt this will happen.
You mean like trying to queue for a higher key any season on a non meta spec? We already have these problems. Why do we worry another system could suffer same issues?
The most important difference: If you queue in M+ solo queue you can be doing something else on the side. Right now you have to actively look for groups or players.
Because the automated system can offer you much better results.
Let’s say you just need one player, right? Some people might have the skill you are looking for but they won’t queue because they don’t like the tank or healer spec in the group, even tho it’s completely fine. Or they heard on youtube a specific dps spec is bad and try to avoid the group even tho the information is completely wrong?
Or you are actually looking for 2 people but you were cba waiting for this one due pre-made and invited one guy already and then miss out on these 2 players who probably would have been the best pick for you.
Or you miss out on players who didn’t start queueing yet because they know you have to actively doing it, means queue and accept, but they have to finish something quick irl and before they had the chance to apply to your group, you might have invited some other guy on the same spec because you didn’t want to wait.
There are so many reasons why the queue system is much better than pugging, we could be talking about it a whole year. The only time the queue system is useless, is when you have a full group of 5 people to play with. But even then, you could probably find one, like playing a different/random key or whatever. Depends on how it is designed.
And I find it hard to believe that Blizzard’s designers will look at Mythic+ and conclude the following: “Nope. Can’t make automated queuing work here. It’s impossible.”
I think such a design task would be pretty manageable for a design team. It’s hardly uncharted territory.
It’s also not like Mythic+ arrived at its current design by virtue of having tried other designs and having concluded that the current one is the best and only one that works. No. The reason why Mythic+ has the design it has, is because Blizzard carried over the older Challenge Mode design that was intended for the select few players seeking out a real challenge, and then they drew some inspiration from their colleagues working on Diablo III, and then sort of mish-mashed that together into the Mythic+ design we still have today.
To stick with that initial design for all time would be very strange for a company that otherwise prides itself on its iterative approach to game design.
Still waiting for queable normal/heroic/mythic raids. Afterall, soloqueue is the “salvation of mankind” and I see absolutely no reason why it shouldnt work in mythic raids.
If we got LFR then we can have soloQ in mythic raids right? Whats the problem again? Why is Blizzard being a snail on this one? What could be so possibly difficult to just randomly place 20 people together and they are good to go, right?
/sarcasm off in case you missed it.
Well, if you stopped generalising everything and putting everything in 1 pot and actually bother to see the that there is a difference between a +10 and your run of the mill equable heroic dungeon…
Right now, according to your logic. “Absolutely all video games are exactly the same because they are played by humans”.
Well no. If you get loot and vault by failing a key then just walk in. Wipe once. Abandon. Profit.
It dosent matter. If you take 4 DDs at random, there will always be 1 class that is squishier than the rest. And 1 person with less experience than the rest.
He will get ganked and killed.
You got to 2.1k rating with a healer. You got skill.
But you dont seem to understand. What I am saying is that if you played a DD instead, with the same level of skill you would have reached 3k or something.
But I agree that BGs are more fun. If someone gets ganked and dies you can recover. That’s a benefit to start with. And with a minimum coordination you have enough people to pull off any move.
It dosent translate. If you play in 3s you will never tie. To begin with.
And second, assuming you form a 3v3 group via LFG. OK. When you quew to a 3v3 arena match, you are MATCHMAKED into another group with similar MMR. Group that, on average, you ill win 50% of the time. MINIMUM.
That dosent translate to PvE. You dont get matched with an equally difficult NPC dungeon, and you have no guarantee that you will complete a minimum of 50% of said keys.
If healers/tanks dont play now, with all the advantages we already have: Namely (A) instant invites and (B) our pick of a really large pool of DDs. We can pick the most gigachad, over skilled, over geared DDs we want to carry us in our keys.
So. You want to tell healers and tanks to give away (B) advantage, in favour of non-gigachad DDs waiting in the quew… and somehow they will be willing to play more often?
How does that work?
The problems of the top 0.1% are not what the matchmaking is for. The “meta” in high keys exists for a reason. Just on having the right raid buffs, you can perform 10% to 15% better than with out them. 10% is a lot.
If you think that some computer will consistently match you with non-meta comps and you expect to even complete those dungeons… I mean… no… seriously.
No. Matchmaking is for those that claim to have trouble finding a group in keys 1 to 10. But hey. 3M +10s completed last week. People dont seem to have problems.
And if you want more than 3M +10s done, you need more than 3M healers/tanks. Otherwise, that is the maximum number of keys you can do in that week. And only 9M DDs got to play in those keys. All others had to wait.
Sure. And technically you could certainly argue the same for raiding. I just don’t think we’re seeing Blizzard invest themselves very much in raiding these days. The vision Blizzard has for the game seems to focus more on solo and small-scale group activities, not the big 40 man raids of old – queue systems or not.
It’s a cost/benefit analysis in the end, right? If Mythic+ Dungeons are more popular than raids, then Blizzard will emphasize their efforts on Mythic+. And if Delves are more popular than Pet Battles, then Blizzard will emphasize their efforts on Delves.
Holly Longdale said that more than a year ago, that Blizzard are taking a data-driven approach to the development of the game, i.e. the things that players are interested in and invest their time into, those are the things Blizzard will spend their development resources on. And raiding just doesn’t seem to be a very hype activity these days, so Blizzard doesn’t really emphasize their development efforts on it very much.
I don’t see how the difference between a Heroic dungeon and a Mythic +10 relates to an automated queue system for Mythic+.
It’s still a progression.
In Diablo IV Blizzard also has infinitely-difficult dungeon difficulties. But if you want to run a Nightmare 100 dungeon, then you still need to beat the 99 dungeon to get access to the 100 dungeon. And to get access to the 99 dungeon you need to beat the 98 dungeon and…
It’s a pretty simple and smart system that basically means that players progress according to their own capabilities and no one finds themselves in a difficulty they’re not capable of doing.
Blizzard implemented the same design for Delves. You can’t run a tier 11 if you haven’t beat a tier 10. And you can’t run a tier 10 if you haven’t done a tier 9. And so on.
Copy/paste to Mythic+ automated queue system and you’re pretty good to go. Everyone who can queue for a +10 have proven they can all the difficulties prior to that and are therefore capable of being in a +10.
Again your missing the details.
Delves can be done solo = you rely…only on yourself and thus your success depends on yourself. Diable IV, might need to be corrected but you can also solo it as well.
M+ = You can be the best DPS on the realm, know your rotation inside and out, interrupt everything…yet still fail the run. Why? Because the tank was clueless with the route for example.
Solo-content = progress can be followed cause there is a simple 1 or 0 = either you do it…or you dont.
M+ = You can do everything “right” and still fail cause you coulnt compensate for other’s mistakes or “fail” at everything but still succeed because 4 other people managed to cover for you.
For Haven’s sake Jito. Stop playing dense. And try to understand the intricacies in every situation.
You are just going blunt “dungeon is dungeon” whats the difference if it has a “normal” or “M+20” mark on it?
“Motorbike and truck is same thing because both run on rubber tyres”.
Question still remains though, 11 days ago they said they would not do it now a “supposed” survey has popped up and has anyone actually confirmed its real? if not why all this constant natter about nothing.
That you seem believe that sounds so dystopian to me. Next you gonna tell us AI in its current state is “perfect in every way” too?
Ironic how this is contradicted by this:
You really expect Blizzard to make a good matchmaking? When even Overwatch 1 with experienced devs still at Blizzard struggled a lot in competitive games to have balanced teams?
Kindly go and take that rotten attitude somewhere else.
I respond with respect for what others write and don’t demean or discredit what’s being said or who’s saying something, even if I’m of a contrary belief or arguing in opposition.
And I expect the same in return.
If you have no respect for me as a person and think my input is not genuine, suggesting so because you think I appear dense, then I think it’s best if you just don’t talk to me again.
I am sorry if it sounded harsh but thats the vibes you are giving. Me and Uda broke our backs trying to explain that details in those scenarios matter and you plain out ignore those and just go “dungeon is dungeon” what else matters?
“Video game is video game” so whats the difference if its a simulator or a shooter type game? If a feature X works in a shooter then it should work in a simulator type game…right?
I suppose its pointless to argue “healthy food vs unhealthy food” if the other party’s main argument is “humans need to eat, what else matters?”
Huh? I mean you obviously finish the dungeon, just like you do now. But you don’t time it and get no score.
Well that’s because in your assumption the “bad” class is always also a bad player. That’s not reality tho.
When I was playing MW in solo shuffle, MW was considered bad and some people even tried to run me down. Made them lose.
Warlocks were considered #1 focus target many times and prolly still is the same. There are tons of good warlock players out there showing how this won’t make them lose.
That’s where rating separates the good players from bad players. At least it kinda used to do that.
No I would not. I would still stop at 2.1k due to lack of incentives. That’s my point. I did not stop because of balance, MMR or CR issues or whatever… it was just the good old lack of incentives. Rating meant nothing anymore, I am not interested in titles that are turned off by everyone by default. I am not interested in a higher number that means nothing and is not attached to anything. I would have played even for gold. But not extra 50 conquest points when you are capped anyway.
That’s possible statistics. But if you queue 100 solo shuffle and 100 random 3s groups, I can tell you from experience that healing random 3s groups is more annoying and less fun.
Because usually you don’t get the player who played on his class to get to X.
You get a player on low rating, who claims to have good xp but is actually clueless. This does not happen in solo shuffle this way. Regardless what the xp of the player is, if he came to a specific level then most likely because he performs a certain way on the class he currently plays in your lobby.
I would say the chance is much higher. The difficulty of the dungeon is not made by the dungeon itself, it’s just like a foundation. The difficulty is made by the players themselves, how they play, if they interrupt, if they CC, the route the tank chooses etc…
This is where matchmaking kinda kicks in. A higher scored tank who grinded his way through, will most likely know the most efficient route than someone who just started. Difficulty of the dungeon already lowered just because of that. And there are tons of examples I could list but this is just getting too long already.
That’s the problem tho, we don’t have an advantage, we have a disadvantage. You are literally in a disadvantage if you have people following the meta and you queue on a non meta spec even tho you DO play healer or tank. (even tho for most tanks right now there are no real issues)
Instant invites? Wdym? At some point you sit in LFG trying to apply for whatever and get no invites the entire day.
It’s not large, especially the higher you go. And if you want to play a specific comp (which is the “advantage” of not automated system, right?) you are even worse off.
I don’t have the screenshot anymore (literally just cleaned my desktop yesterday lol) but a friend of mine was waiting for a feral for a +13 (1-2 weeks ago) for over 27 minutes and didn’t find anything. He didn’t even find any “second pick” for this in that time frame.
Where you see giving away advantage, I see giving advantage and, more important, a chance to play at all.
Where you see non-giga-chad dds in the queue, I see giga-chad-dds in the queue who don’t only pick meta specs to play with but also play with off-meta-specs and still succeed and maybe even learn to overcome their meta sheep mentality.
My hope is that we get the player and not the class system while obviously not completely ignoring group synergy. If it was always for the group synergy, you would most likely never invite shadow priests and warlocks. But this season is a great example how these classes perform well and inviting good players on these specs has a much more value than going for a meta comp with mediocre players.
I don’t argue that but I also would like for M+ solo queue to have no limit.
That means actually absolutely nothing. You don’t know how many of those people were maybe sitting for hours in queue or looking for group.
Even tho I am 100% sure it’s not true but imagine 2,9m of those runs were completed by people who literally waited 5 hours in queue and had only 45 minutes of actual gameplay. It would sound ridiculous to say “we have no problem”, right?
Without any context, this is no evidence to anything. And more important: it does not tell you how many people were NOT able to play, which is the much more interesting value I’d like to know.
And how many declined the healers and tanks because youtube says it’s not S tier?
Literally yesterday I tried to do a few +6 on my ilvl 670 resto shaman. I can easily heal a +10 with that gear. I got declined by pretty much every inexperienced player and it took me around 15-20 min to find a key to play. Which we of course completed with +2 without a single fail on the healer side.
I guarantee you, no automated system would have made me wait that long. Automated system, done somewhat properly, will ALWAYS make better and faster decisions than an inexperienced or even average player.
Why should I say that? But I can say the AI is smarter than many people, at that’s at the current state. And this is true. I can also guarantee you, the AI can already make better decisions than most players in terms of group constipation.
Where is the contradiction tho?
The problem is, whenever this topic comes up, people always expect perfection. They completely throw realistic expectations over the board and want only perfection. Nothing but perfection.
Look, name me one problem that could come up with solo queue, that does not already exist. I wish you could luck finding it
Having a proper comp is part of the m+ challenge. Its not a normal/heroic dungeon where you can run in with 4 naked warriors and a holy priest and still clear it without issue(I wished a certain somebody also understood this). Then we got interrupt heavy dungeons, party utilities such as cr and hero and what not.
Proper comp =/= meta comp
And most people, especially the ones with less experience, blindly follow meta comps.
If not explicitly said by their favorite streamers, then they will never invite classes like Warlock, SP, WW monk etc… does that mean these classes are lacking or can’t finish even the highest keys right now?
But we don’t even need to finish the highest keys like the top 0,00001% of the players.
