Scaling in dungeons is broken

Community General Discussion
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It worked that way for well over a decade when the game was actually good, from classic and onwards and it didn’t cause any issues, yet come scaling and Blizzard not only damaged the game as whole, but created a host of issues for themselves, all in the name of some needless ‘‘convenience’’. Power progression is a core trait of a MMORPG, what is frusttrating or not for newbies plays no role here whatsoever, catering to that is why the game has gone downhill over time, as evidenced by Classic, TBC…etc, popularity.

As someone mentioned earlier, scaling of any kind in a game such as this is bound to be a disaster, creating more issues than solving them, it doesn’t belong here. If it was up to me, the world, the lvling would remain as it originally was, each zones having their levels, power progression as you level, and the game would fare better in general.
The issue with massive numbers, such as the case in Legion, is an issue created by Blizzard themselves, not the game, through introdcution of multiple difficulties in content, massively spiking power through gear. True, the issue may arise regardless in some distant future, but i dont see how scaling of any kind would solve that, it clearly doesn’t.

The game used to be simple and people loved it for that, even as you struggled at first, it’s the fantasy of this kind of game. When you add scaling, and there is no power difference between a lvl 1 and a max level charcter, that fantasy goes away, the game feels completely gimped.

1-49 and 50 will always have separate scaling.

Which should not be the case, it should be merely a continuation of power progression, same as from 1-49, as it used to be ages ago, if Blizzard intends to stay true to the game’s genre, which they clearly don’t. What they seem to have made of this game is not a MMORPG anymore.

P.S. My friend who i helped to lvl up recently with my DK who was about 453 ilvl before the patch, outperfomed me now at lvl 30 in terms of raw numbers, the rate at which mobs died was faster for him than me. Sorry but the scaling is just a colossal clusterf**k.

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I know how the scaling works. I played SWTOR.
But it looks very weird :stuck_out_tongue: You do the same content and you feel so weak with your max level character.

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Level 10 arcane mage WTS dungeon boosts. Get those 30-50 levels in no time!

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What people are asking for is mixed.

I actually agree with you that you can’t increase the power of a player every time he levels up compared to lower level player. While this would give a sense of power progression, the problems you mentioned are valid. Especially when you want everyone to be able to do dungeons together.

But what I and some of the others here are asking for is that the damage is not decreasing.

The way it is currently is that your power compared to a lower level player actually decreases.

I’m fine with a low level player being as strong as me on level 40+. But I don’t want to feel like I’m dragging my group down, just because I’m a higher level. I do 1/4 to 1/2 of the damage of a low level player, even getting outdpsed by heal and tank.

This makes me feel useless in the group and it also causes people to get kicked.

Lower level players have no access to AoE so you absolutely have to buff their single target damage to make up for it, no doubt. I’m okay with that.

I know getting it perfectly balanced will be nearly impossible. I’m just hoping that they can balance it a bit better than currently or I’ll have to feel guilty every time I queue for a dungeon with lvl 40+.

1 Like
146

Have to agree that dungeon scaling is messed up… the problem is that many people are not well informed and this is creating a lot of attitude problems that I hardly ever saw before.

I’m helping a friend (71 year old lady) level up her gnome shadow priest, currently lvl 46 - she wanted to try a dungeon, we got into Waycrest Manor. Tank pulled an entire room and more, we wiped and the tank instantly left. A new one came, lower level, did similar damage or more than us DPSers (I was playing this rogue) every pull and kept complaining about it - my friend was doing 'bout 10 to 15% less damage than him, but was trying as hard as she could, following the rotation I taught her.

Tank kept complaining about damage (for all of us) and initiated a vote kick on her, which passed - she got kicked. She truly was doing all she could but the numbers were just not there.

Broke my heart.

4 Likes
147

blizzard should have fixed the problem with characters getting weaker when leveling up when it first happened in the start of bfa at 40-50, instead they made it worse by now spreading it all the way from 11-49…
This is a multimillion dollar company, not some tiny startup with crowndfunding.
at the very least, a normal geared 40+ character shouldn’t be WEAKER than a 11 one.

1 Like
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I think this is also a community problem. Like you say people do not understand or are well informed as to how it works.

But also an attitude problem. How you fix that I have no idea, but wow players get more and more toxic in game each patch. Something needs to change as i’ve seen tanks pull entire rooms, die, then blame and kick the healer. Now if that’s a new player, what is their immediate thought going to be?

But to me it’s less of a scaling issue and more of a community issue.

Why?

Well, people look at the top dps and compare everyone to that person… but they’re not entirely aware of the dps needed to do the dungeon? The amount of times ive seen low dps, but mathematically it’s higher than what is needed… it happens often. The game is so ego driven now that people expect perfection in even leveling dungeons.

If you aren’t wiping, why kick someone?? Maybe they do less dps, but there’s a reason why.

People are also ignoring the strength of heirloom too.

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that’s still blizzards fault for allowing people to kick active players for the amount of dps they do, isn’t it?

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People just assume you’re bad when you really do everything you can, but just can’t compete, because of your level.

This is made even worse by the fact that a lot of people believe you should be able to do more damage when you’re at a higher level, because you have more abilities.

I personally know that it’s the scaling that causes the difference in dps. But just imagine how bad someone must feel that doesn’t realize this and thinks he’s actually that bad, as people tell him he is.

I think this will just drive people away from dungeons even more.

2 Likes
151

Everything is focused/balanced for end game now.
Besides that, this is why I prefer Questing for levelling , you enjoy your class/spec a lot better, without that demoralising feel of being out dpsed by another class lower level than you.

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sadly it it’s the same leveling, after level 30, your power starts to really take a hit and I died several times in events where there is 2-3 mobs spawning at level 35 as a brewmaster monk…

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While in concept it may seem great,playing together and all, it’s terrible in practice, terrible for the game, especially as we see now with the scaling. The performance gap should be massive between large number of levels, like it used to be for the longest time, and not the same, that’s the whole point. Do people really not see how ludicrious it is that a lvl 10 can have the same performance as a lvl 40+? I find that absolutely atrocious from a gameplay perspective and wrong on so many levels. It’s like someone who is first time at the gym, being stronger than a professional powerlifter who’s been at it for years. To me it just makes no sense. The same, in the game’s fantasy, should apply, as it did until Legion and BfA, but prominently now with the prepatch with the level squish, you’re suppose to grow stronger than those lower, not stay the same. With what we got now, the game would be better off with no scaling at all.

I really cannot grasp the reasoning behind this, why? Why should their lower lvl character performance should somehow be on par with higher lvl characters? This is just mind boggling. I feel like Blizzard, especially Ion Hazzikostas, have forgotten what this game used to be and what made it good at it’s core, nor was the focus on the end game, it mattered, but not the sole focus of the whole game like it is now, it was a continuationof power progression from leveling, and i feel like they are just completely out of touch.

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Because otherwise everyone will have a bad time joining a dungeon? It’ll be the same situation, but reversed.

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In what way, or how is it a bad thing? They are lower level characters, they are suppose to be weaker and lacking compared to higher more advanced level characters, that’s one of the ideas behind a game such as this, the fantasy of it.

It begs the question who actually wants this current equality, i might be too old school of a player but it’s just completely idiotic from a gameplay perspective.

To put more time and work into a character only to be on par with someone less? That will always blow my mind away.

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Just imagine getting into a dungeon with 4 low lvl characters who can’t do any dmg.

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I honestly disagree with you there.

If players of different levels can do dungeons together (which is cool imo) they have to deal comparable damage or either one of those will feel like he’s not pulling his/her weight.

I think the damage you deal should be determined by how much experience you have playing your class and how well you use your skills and not just by how much time you put in.

You still got that progression you want at max. level by improving your gear. But I don’t think you should do more damage, just because you are a higher level than someone else, especially if both of you fight in the same dungeon together.

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It was that way for well over a decade when teh game was at its best, it wasn’t an issue then, it shouldn’t be an issue now. It’s how the game was intended to work, how a MMORPG is suppose to work. And secondly i always disliked the idea of massively different lvl characters being able to progress the same dungeon with/of the same lvl of difficulty, the way it used to be in the past was just superior, but again, i’m an old school player who stays true to what made the game enjoyable.

Being able to progress on the same lvl in any content while being massively different levels just goes against the game’s fantasy, in which outleveling a zone, its mobs, being far stronger is the point. You are suppose to ‘‘outgrow’’ things.

That should only apply to people of equal levels, or almost equal, not when the disparity is 10, 20 or 30 levels, but again, it all goes back to power progression of which there is none since the patch. Power should be the dominant factor in one’s performance otherwise it removes the whole purpose of gearing up, of progressing at all.
This has been the same logic in regards to relevance of PvP gear these days and Blizzard’s constant integration of PvP scaling systems…utter nonsense, someone who has worked to obtain gear should be more powerful than someone who just started, or someone in full blues, because, again, otherwise the core aspect of the game has no meaning.

Individual skill matters, but power is more important, the concept in this fantasy game where you grow stronger and obtain more powerful items.

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Yes, it was that way, but with Chromie time changes that’d mean making level brackets for dungeons, so decreasing the pool of players queuing for them even further. And for some of the later expansion such as Legion or BfA this would mean queuing for dungeons would be allowed only at lvl 40 and lvl 45.

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Delete all scaling ty !

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161

was running a quick check with some alts, at level 35, it takes me 12 seconds to kill a deranged hellboar using skills normally, or 13 tiger palms if just using basic strike.
on level 10, it takes 3 seconds, or 3 tiger palms to kill the same deranged hellboar, that’s not how progression should EVER work…

1 Like