Carry on insisting “best set up” for your +10. Rest of us do not go head-over-heels insisting this. It literally does not matter in +10.
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Look what I wrote above, are you ignorant now ? I said how basically the bracket between 1-10 doesn’t rly matter because on that level with how the things are tuned and how the damage is the imbalance between the classes is not getting yet that visible to matter and is not affecting the runs, but once you start progressing more in the content, you just see how the amount of the certain specs/classes drops down and how some are getting a lot more prevalent.
wow trash easy 5-man “competitive” PvE content is unbalanced because there’s so little jobs to do in a small instance like that and even though they pruned 1389513985139 abilities from all classes because muh homogenization made people want the highest DPS or w/e was their excuse has now put the game into an even dumber situation
imagine
my
shock
Alright, for the sake of reasoning:
Rdruid+pwarr+rogue+dh+moonkin
Disc priest+veng dh+enh sham+surv+sp
KR 10 tyra, griev, bursting
The packs in first boss room has tides. The packs on bridge have void. Axe girl is last. Im sure you can see the picture.
You’re right about surv hunters, they can do alright dmg. Most specs can, the deciding factors arent dmg output. Most dps specs are alright in m+, and its hard to pinpoint how big the gap is between them. The 2 classes/specs that ruin m+ are rdruid and rogues. If you ignore those two, its not that bad.
Wise and well thought response. I think the problem here is mainly the druid and the demon hunter dps. But then I must ask in return - should we go nerf druid (and thus also impact their overall performance in raids and anywhere) or should we bring other healers on level (but how can we do that without turning some of them overpowered in raids?)
I think only very distinctive spec/class that is so out of proportion in representation is druid and other is demon hunter.
KR is one place, where during 17 tyr run my paladin healer screamed “I hate that I am not bloody druid!” - it was when he got all of the boss mechanics in row on last boss and he started to fall behind dealing with my stagger.
I do not feel I need rogue on any of my runs, but I recall few moments where healer has hated the fact he cannot keep up if RNG makes them move too much. So what could be solution then ?
When I look representation of timed runs - it is all the difficulties, then for example there are more DH and paladin tanks than brewmaster monks. And in general what are too out of hand are following :
- Too many restoration druids and havoc DHs.
- Too little subtlety rogues, survival hunters and arcane mages. Feral druids are low too, but both druids and rogues, we can claim that they have high demand specs to compensate. druids a balance (to keep it with dps) and rogues with 2 other specs.
- Class wise two least popular M+ classes are monks and warlocks.
On contrast highest runs are done with monks
So does it mean we have to go deal with monks ? If you nerf monks now (most popular high key tank apparently) - then their global would also drop notably on low keys as they are not popular begin with despite being tank of preference on high keys.
So for Blizzard this is not as simple as it is for us, players. They did try to tone down rogue aoe, monk tank nerf is coming, but who knows what they think of demon hunters and druids. DHs are very mobile in raids, do well in raid and m+ environment and literally has no weaknesses - their self heal, aoe stunts, dispels etc etc - how can one class have almost everything. In a single spec. Short term aoe,immunities, cooldowns. Figures. For me the DH-cult blizzard has about Dhs is beyond comprehension. In comparison you have i.e. frost dk that literally has nothing. That dispel DHs got was originally planned for dks, and I thought great dks now get something worthy. Nope. removed and given to class that already has plenty.
Druids have always been stronger in environments with movements and if you take that away - they are going to miss some of their iconic identity. And if you nerf hots too much, you are going to have problems.
I am more annoyed by Demon hunters in general than I am with all druid issue.
I think a +10, +15 etc run has absolutely no difference on not having a rogue, and I am not even slightest bothered with +20 runs have them. However demon hunters do bother me. That’s one dps with way too many tools, and numbers.
Am a bit confused, are you complaining about MDI meta or live meta? Cause i doubt the MDI meta is gonna affect you at all, but the live meta is not like you seem to complain about.
Prot warrior is not the best live tank, the top is way more filled with monks atm.
Resto druid i agree should be nerfed, problem is that they are not good in raids, so nerfing them will completely push them out in raiding unless they come up with a smart nerf.
3x rogue is not really present atm. It was a thing last season and start of this season, but now no top runs have 3 rogue, and barely any even have 2, we have moved over to Rogue + DH + Some ranged like mage, boomie or ele, so i would say if you’re complaining about MDI, you could be partially right, but looking at live you seem to not know anything.
With all that being said, we have like 2-3 months before patch so plenty of nerfs can happen in the meantime.
I’m glad that you started to see some of the issues now in your last response.
Maybe one of the better solutions to the problems which would not mess up the raid balance would be if Blizzard would implement a separate talent tree ( something akin to current PvP one ) for the m+ content in which we could get the classes which play the same role on the same level when it comes to the balance for that content ?
Its almost close to impossible to balance anything. On MDI(which pretty much sets the “meta”) people will always take the class which the group can benefit the most.
Nerfing one class will only change the meta comp and thats it. It won’t get rid of the “meta”. So the cycle will just continue like my example:
Class A is meta. “Forum topic: OMG! Nerf class A its OP and nobody wants to invite my Class B!”
Blizz guts class A
Class B is the new meta. “Forum topic. OMG! Nerf class B. Its OP and nobody wants to invite my Class C!”
Blizz guts Class B
…
… and around we go…
But to make class A=class B=class C. Then we need to make everyone a skyrim character. Everyone can be everything. Only then. All “classes” can be balanced.
Why are you so pessimistic about that ? The ideal balance can’t be accomplished unless you make all the classes the same which would in the eyes of some players ruin the RPG aspect of the game.
But Blizzard can surely see if some classes are currently to strong and some other to weak and according to that make changes. For example they can take any spec and class and than examine the reasons why it underperforms in the content on the global level in comparison to some others which are playing the same role, and than based on that act, and add to them what they are lacking for that content to make them better.
I dunno and don’t care if I am in the “eligible bracket” to discuss it but I really hope they will change their focus from doing esport events with same dungeons or world first raids into a focus on making more quality dungeons like mechagon.
M+ is good, but 3 raids, each getting obsolete after few months, which noone makes groups for anymore, cause there is absolutely no point going there any more for PuGs.
And only 10 or is it 11 dungeons for the full 2 years is not enough.
Better 3 raids which are not getting irrelevant each new season and 15 dungeons released over 2 years imo.
Well. The issue here is. That m+ is not only about dps numbers. If it was, then Blizz would just trow out some “+% or -% dmg buffs” and problem solved.
Unfortunately. Utilities play just as an important factor as dps. And for example giving a class’s flag ability(rogue shroud, monk ring, DH mass stun and etc) to 6 more classes then we risk going the “skyrim” path - everyone can do everything.
While some would argue that class “uniqueness” has been severely crippled. People still choose to make a warrior instead of paladin for a reason, monk instead of a lock for a reason(and not because it says “monk” on the label and he/she likes the sound of it 
)
Honestly if Blizzard would determine that some abilities are necessarily needed for the classes to perform well in some content and to be more competitive with others which are playing the same role as them, even if they would do the same things than it should add it to them, they could always get different visuals tho suitable to their fantasy.
The problem with that … is … topics like those :
and so on. I can find many of those on general here on 1st scroll-range, let alone many more on older topics.
One has to either dumb down dungeons, or homogenize classes. Or we must accept that sometimes monks have a ring and druids can cast while running. I personally do not mind if my class cannot do everything (I identify myself with dks in wow, when i speak of “my class”), just I at times wish that some classes wouldn’t do as much (i.e. DH) compared to some others (i.e. DK). I like some unique traits and utilities classes have however.
Personally I rather have some abilities homogenized than some classes/specs crippled for the progression and the content.
There is no reason for example why some other healers wouldn’t be able to get better mobility and some good heals to cast on the move, which might be necessarily needed for the m+ content especially on the higher level, just like there is no reason that they wouldn’t be able to get the cr, and that those things would need to remain only the uniqueness of the resto druid spec.
I would tie such things into talents perhaps. To have one set good for raids, other set for 5 man content. Monk ring for example is talent. It is not base line and also to play well with ring you need some practice and it is useless in raids (ok, it has uses in raids too tho, but not as much).
I do not want druids become not viable or their iconic moves removed - I rather see other healers get their own ‘cool viable niches’ or in case of movement - have talents that would suck in raid (i.e. have max strength on 3-4 targets), but would work well in small party content.
Pardon my wording, but hope it made some sense.
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Start by nerfing Resto dps. Then lets see how it goes.
I read good suggestion to remove mass ress from them. Yes, why not.
there is no need to look at mdi to know which comp would work better. Just casual experience with different specs is more than enough. People get good experience with good specs and tend to invite them again and vice versa.
I couldn’t find any news on season 4 m+ yet. Where is the source? Can you provide it?
Sorry, but I can’t like your post without a source.
Why not M+ talents in the same mold as PvP ones? The group could pick 3 (or 5) and allocate them to individuals at the start. This would allow for more viable groups without messing with class identity outside of the dungeon.
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I do not know. For example I think most rogues I have in group are underperforming. On dps, on survival and on anything, but since people do not want to use invisi potions, they invite rogue. I actually am part-disappointed, when I get in group and find there a rogue. Not because all-rogues are bad, but because due to current meta even those, who probably do not enjoy rogue too well or are not good in it - play it. So we have saturation of rogues.
Least even bad DH would dish some decent damage. Bad rogues less so.