Season 4 starts and I am already de-motivated to play

You may feel that it makes for a completely different gameplay experience - and you’re right, it does, but it’s still dungeons and Blizzard has placed one thing later in the progression path than another.

Heroic dungeon is to M0 what LFR is to Normal as well: Queueable, lower gear, same content.

No, they haven’t done that, either. M+ was always the extension of the dungeon system, which is why it is named after the highest difficulty level in dungeons with a plus added at the end.

What they have done now is they have removed timers for lower levels. Timers are not necessary at low levels because the challenge is more often than not going to come from just being unable to defeat the encounter because you’re not using your spells, not because of rushing and trying to find out when to use them across many pulls.

There is no massive group of angry people. Not even the OP is complaining about that - he’s complaining about the fact that everything he got has been made worthless, which is true but has nothing to do with whether what he was doing was called M0 or M+ 2-9, and he’s complaining about the lockout, which I think is totally legitimate. There is no reason why +2 should be available an infinite amount of times while +0 isn’t. It actually makes no sense.

When this change was announced the feedback was overwhelmingly positive from just about everybody.

The hardcore is the group of people who are the most active, committed, or strict members of the playerbase.

By definition being hardcore requires a lot of time, which is why i called my own guild Silverblade a casual guild despite it being top 1500 in the world. Why? Because we played 6 hours a week and there was no requirement to dedicate a huge amount of time as long as you delivered on raid night well enough. 9.1 killed the guild because it tied player power too much to grinding dailies. We couldn’t deal with that, too many got frustrated.

Hardcore != good, good != hardcore. There is a correlation because more time spent doing a thing means more practice, but with a game of this age you can find lots of great casuals.

Players who spend inordinate amounts of time in the game yet decide not to play difficult content are still hardcore, they’re just… well, they’re not even necessarily bad; sometimes they’re just scared or disinterested. But the vast majority of players are both casual and “bad” compared to the hardcore and they don’t want to deal with mechanics designed for the hardcore.

They want to explore and experience content with a little bit of pushback to make sure they don’t see everything immediately. They’re not interested in caps or lockouts or DPS meters, WoW has done a VERY poor job of serving these people, it’s now a little better, but it’s still not good enough. Delves will probably help a little bit more, and this did, too.

You and Tyssera just don’t know what it means. It doesn’t mean good, it means ultra dedicated people who spend a lot of time on it.

They havent removed the timers of the lower levels. They have removed the lower levels.

2 Likes

They’re just rolled in Mythic. This difficulty level and the associated rewards still exist, it’s just without a timer.

No. M+2 to M+9 is removed.

Their difficulty levels were very near identical.

One thing I found noteworthy the last 5-6 seasons is jut how outrageously difficult it was to even find groups below 10. It was basically impossible; and making a group at these difficulty levels was even harder. It took hours.

EDIT: Except for when you had to grind low level points quickly because Blizzard messed up the reward system, but this is not a sign of it being an appropriate difficulty level.

A 2 was miles away from a 9. And it took a very short time to make groups.

Not my experience at all. I literally tried 2 seasons ago to get my feral druid geared up and I sat around with a +5 key for hours and hours on end as a tank. I could not make a group. It was impossible.

I did plenty of low key and my guild started unlimited amounts too. Also in no pressure the 2-9 lfg was for a long time very active too. I have no idea how people have to wait hours upon hours on any keylevel to get a group.

I could fill +15-+23 in like 5 minutes tops. +5? Impossible. Like seriously, I couldn’t do it.

Even yesterday - I have given up upgrading my key. I got a +2 because I asked the darn vendor thinking I’d get one a few levels lower than I had last week as you used to. Instead I got a +2 and I can’t get rid of it. I cannot make a +2 group - it takes forever.

2 Likes

+2 is +12 and at the start of the season you already cant find a group? That is more on you then.

What do you mean it’s just me? I open a group and nobody signs up. How can that possibly be my fault?

Can’t be my gear. Can’t be my score from last season. And why would anybody reject joining a +2 due to score? Obviously people creating +2’s don’t have score, that’s why they have a +2.

1 Like

What is your point? That +2 is too easy or too hard or that you in general cant find group at all? Have you seen how amazingly active +2-5 is right now in NOP? You can join any group any minute. Actually multiple groups.

You now give an example of a difficulty higher than the removed ones. So you want to say we should remove +2-15 or something? Start M+ at +20?

My point is +2-9 was dead before, and now I can’t even get +2 (old +11) groups. My point is that these difficulties didn’t add anything to the game and I cannot understand why people are crying about them. They did nothing.

That’s why Blizzard removed them. They said so openly. Everybody cheered them. Your claim that these groups were super common is just false. I’ve experienced that fact, Blizzard knows it as well. Heroic was even more dead - it never popped. Queues lasted for hours and the estimate was completely wrong.

No, I can get +4’s and up easily. And I’m okay with +2 existing but I’ve gotta call it what it is: The lowest meaningful limit.

No. A game is not a consumable product like a tomato or something.

Ask youself the following : You buy a game. Any game. Whatever genre.

You FIRST go through the tutorial. Get killed a couple of times. Have to put difficulty in “Easy” because you get killed. But, you learn how the thing works. And then, you play the game.

THAT is reality. And wow is even worse than any ST game because X amount of people in your party have to do the same thing. Stop having unrealistic expectations.

You cant seriously expect to get full 522 gear on day 1. And then reduce ALL dungeon mechanics to something so easy a monkey can understand.

So yeah… give it time to gear up and learn how dungeons work. And that is why in 3 weeks everything will be easier.

You walked in with 465 gear. What did you expect?

In fact, I want to ask you… you had 6 months in S3 to get to 482 hero gear. Why dident you? I mean… given enough time, 1 dungeon per week would have been more than enough to get you there.

Again. If you expect to just walk in there and have all the gear handed to you with OUT having to actually play the content… then no thanks.

Because if this is your general attitude towards the game…

And it was in S3 because you were 465 as you claim… then im sorry. The game cannot, and will not be designed for the least common denominator. That is wrong.

Because its the 1st day of the season.

Most players are with the raid at the moment.

The people that are doing M+ are mostly guildies farming gear. And those that do M+ as a game mode are way past a 2+.

I for example started directly with a 7+ and went up from there.

I have done already mutliple +2’s (untimed one yesterday). Not sure what the problem is. And i have only the evening to play. Certainly not 5 hours waiting for 1 key.

For whatever reason I had a hard time getting into +7 as well, but at least I can understand that; people are worried about my score and gear. I did fine in the +7 I got into after doing a +4 with a group though, and I think I’ll have an easier time getting into them now.

There is no reason to deny people access to a +2 other than if the gear is waaaay below requirements, but last season’s gear nearly maxed out does imo qualify people for a +2 easily. And yet…

It was like so much easier to get into a +4 or +5 compared to a +2 that it boggled my mind.
There’s no way it makes sense other than it just being mostly dead.

I have already untimed an +2 this season.
This screaming of removing +2-9 low keys seems to be more a shout from ivory towers. Not thinking about the people who actually do that content.

This is YOUR personal definition of hardcore. As Sunny pointed out above, everyone has their own idea of what hardcore is, and my personal opinion of your definition is that it’s garbage :slight_smile:

I’m not going to enter into further discussion over this because I’m already aware of your tendency to try to force your personal definitions onto other people’s experience. Enjoy your day.

1 Like

Who?

No that’s the dictionary’s definition, actually. And it does align with mine.