Did already this morning again 4 heroics without any problem and tried 1 M0 and group fell apart before 1st boss.
lol its hilarious how you can chain pull heroics and take no damage, then you go to M+ and you get slapped if you’re under 470ish ilevel
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havnt played anything since season 4 started
focussed on getting cold cap on several chars before tww
u should see the amount of people camping rares.
when u wait for one u see 20-30 reloggin in 10 min time, all
with weird names and diff lvls.
i think i discovered a whole new way that people are botting.
makes me want to play even less now.
What are the ilvl of the rest of the group? I wouldnt think this is a you problem, more of a group problem with low ilvl and maybe not knowing tactics. I do see your point though, m0 and m+ will feel very hard and punishing for the players who normally worked in the very low end of m+. With some more gear from heroic, outdoor content, LFR and so on im sure m0 and +2 will feel more like a place you can practice and learn new roles.
475+ ilvl had the whole M0-group this morning.
It’s just an ilevel check at the moment, then I bet they won’t be much harder than last season.
They’ll see when they get the stats back that barely anyone does M0 and it will change again lol.
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I feel the dungeons themselves will be harder. Mechanics are more complex and more deadly if ignored (with the healer being less able to compensate). I think this season will be harder for “normal” players (not the top players), especially puggers.
Yeah maybe - tbh I never did season 1, so for the dungeons that were not in season 2, there’s some mechanics I’ve never seen in the mythic variant, so guess that might hurt groups a bit. And because of the ilevel hike it adds additional issues, cause who really looks up a dungeon guide for a 2?
That’s because +5 +6 are pretty rough atm - really good players dont go lower then +7 +8 atm and +5 +6 is filled with bad players looking to be boosted.
The amount of people who join like +5 do 100 k st dps and then Rage when wipe happens because bosses take forever to go down is shocking high .
It will be, because this time there is no "cheat key " which you can farm for couple of weeks for easy mythic gv options and crests like SBG in S1 or unnderrot in S2 or BH in S3.
Most keys feel like long slow slog which at any moment can go horribly wrong and people may leave.
Never said i hated the game - nice assumption there 
However…
Tyssera here gets the idea - i know her from Scared of Dungeons community. I havent even logged in since Tuesday, so cant comment on the difficulty on M0 or whatever
You gear up in Heroic and M0 (and all the other things available) if you are struggling to do a M+2. This is the first week of the change over and whilst I think some criticism is very valid your issue is that you are struggling to learn BM. You also have the option to gather gear in your main spec with tank as your chosen gear drops. 480 should be more than adequate to tank a +2 though. There are great resources out there to teach you how another spec works.
It could be that you have been unlucky with groups. Which both Deja and I have pointed. I’ve done +2s that seemed hard work because the group didn’t really know what it was doing or lots of extra stuff was pulled and had a +5 go much smoother. Dungeons themselves always vary in difficulty, especially with affixes.
You can’t deplete a +2 lower than +2 so you don’t have anything to lose. If it goes horribly wrong you can just go again.
The best approach would be try heroic, others have said that’s easy but easy depends on the player. We all have our levels of comfort. If you find heroic too easy then go and do an M0. When they get too easy start a +2.
Even if Blizzard did hate healers, we players love you!!! Hardest role to fill 
It will certainly be interesting to see, I think it will have given heroics purpose again. Blizzard have done this through various means in the past with currencies but now it’s gearing people again. This expansion most skipped heroics beyond the first gearing wave of the expansion because we had nothing else available. Also super rare farming.
The difference between heroic and M0 was insignificant as well so they’ve actually give it a better difficulty but like you say it remains to be seen what take up is. It was miserable listing an M0 before, it was like a ghost town. Now the group finder is full of groups for 0s so I actually think it’s boosted participation.
It’s hard to tell it’s week 1. We are only a few days into this new system.
Plus Blizzard have added vault options for most dungeons, so it doesn’t matter if it’s Timewalking or Heroics or M0 or M plus, they all count.
But you are definitely right, everyone has their definition of what casual or hardcore is. Time played has never been a factor for me. It’s the level at which you are comfortable playing that determines it for me. For example CE raider or high big key pusher. How much time they spend doing it isn’t the factor.
I have friends who spend hours in the game and never touch anything difficult. But they are happy playing at that level. I’m sort of in the middle I’m no CE raider, I don’t go for any titles in M+, I don’t push mega high keys and I’ve never gone for anything in PvP.
On the other hand I don’t think any of that matters, find your level of play, work on it if you want to and push to whatever you want.
The people that don’t like the WoW cycle while I do understand that, especially if you are new to the game it’s also what keeps the game alive. Each new season brings a new gearing curve, dungeon rotation, and either a new raid or in this case all the raids recycled. I know other games do it differently but this is not those games. You’ve only got to see how active the game is at the start of the season to see how well it works. But I get it, some people don’t like the treadmill every time.
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My point was that you kept saying i refuse to do the content, but i must be around +20 heroics right now. I must say that got quite frustating. Also that you keep coming back to my mistweaver while it is about my brewmaster.
You’re playing the worst tank by a mile, and if you’re new to it probably not optimally.
Look, theres a lot of factors and the squish is kinda mentally bad for people because they think “I could do a +12 in my sleep a week ago but now I can’t even do a +2!” while forgetting that its squished and they have less gear relative to the content now.
I mean, i choose brew since i am not new to it. I played it already for a season. If it wasn;'t this crap show i would have tried prot paladin as new spec. I can hardly comment on talking about worst tank by a mile for M0. That shouldnt be a thing in the first place.
But i will keep trying.
I think it’s true for every level though. I tentatively tried +2s on Wednesday having no idea what to expect, especially considering the dungeons in S1 were the hardest of the expansion. They had to be nerfed to bring them in line with last season. I struggled with 20s in S1 and in S3 they were a breeze. Although my class had a rework the dungeons were simply easier to do and more accessible.
I have to keep reminding myself that it’s now an equivalent scale of +11 to 20 but numbered 2-10.
My friend has been tanking some dungeons on his WW as BM and there are some things he doesn’t quite understand yet, so we can do one key at +8 and it’s fine and another key is hell. But they all count for vault so I am not too fussed if we deplete stuff week 1.
This isn’t as challenging as start of expansions when you aren’t even high enough to do heroics and you trot off to do M0 in greens.
I honestly don’t think people have given it enough time yet. We only just got this system. People hate change. I haven’t particularly liked various changes we’ve had over the course of M+ and the vault
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lol i’m getting more loot drop from heroics than i did from +2, so that’s something I guess.
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Have you tried M0? How are they for difficulty and loot?
You’re my guinea pig atm xD
I don’t think the problem is about the time or the people that needs to adapt to this system/changes .
The problem is that The current system is a total mess .
The whole scaling is in another lvl with the people that are trying M0 getting bored-discouraged to play .
The previous 10x was done by people that accumulate the proper gear in order to do them and right now i see a huge amount of people running with the fresh green-blue items .
I just did a Mythic+ a M0 and i doubt i would enter another one since 6 groups that i went was a total mess…
2 weeks ago i restarted after many years and now just waiting my subs to end .
6 of the groups that i tried to do M0
475+ ilvl all of them with huge lack of AOE.
I’m doing 300 to400k while some other are like 150k (Dunno if is class-player-gear issue )
But is a huge blow when dealing with Adds-Bosses and somehow the requiremnts sems to be quite Higher .
I don’t understand … i need to M0 while over gearing the Dungeons or the requirements of people doing M0 Should be the very few quite good players ?
Ending i played several expansion and the introduction to Mythic plus was never so dump like this one .
lol, i’m 465 on my VDH, so probably need a bit more heroic grinding to get to 470 before i try m0.
I tried +2 as VDH at 460 ilevel and got my butt handed to me.
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