It’s overgearing it pretty much, the tank in the +10 I did just after season started was at 488 ilvl and he was nowhere close to struggling to live.
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Difficulty of m0 seems ok for me, but we’re all geared from last season so would probably feel alot harsher if we were lower ilvl. I got 3 gear pieces from one m0 run last night (academy). And other runs i got none, but it evens out over time and at some point we’ll also be able to trade away stuff.
Imo the previous system was a mess. Fresh characters would skip Heroics and few M+ to start gearing in M4-6. Now Heroics matter and so are M0.
ppl with 475 prob should run more Heroics and grind gear to 480 by crafting, raids, but ofc depends… I have seen in m0 ppl at that ilevel doing fine.
Not everyone has to do 300k on groups, adapt, pull smaller packs. Boss is also fine if do mechanics. Cannot faceroll anymore.
Idk what the optimal ilvl for m0 is atm, but was it an ilvl issue or was it a mechanics not being dealt with properly issue? Or maybe both? I think overall it needs a change of mindset aswell. People are used to being able to just zerg through and ignore mechanics and interupts and so on in low levels, now you cant.
I dont know either what the ilvl is for M0, but heroics are just way too easy and in M0 we get destroyed. It is a full time mess. I just want to have something in between 
I am the last one to zerg though. I basically pull 1 pack at a time. I cant get aggro on too much and i cant do all the mechanics for every mob.
No you cant. And thats why i say i dont think its a you problem, but a group problem. Things hurt in m0 if mechanics are ignored now. Not like in s3 where we could chainpull all trash on top of the boss and zerg down in RLP as an example for the 4 mythic dungeon chest. I play with a BM and i noticed he looses aggro quite a bit when dps just goes ham before he manages to pick them all up. And he is a good BM imo. Dont think we had any deaths in the m0 we did, but it was very noticable when ppl ignored stuff.
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S4 is always dead, no new zone, no new raids, no new dungeons, no new gear designs. It’s rinse and repeat
I think most will skip it and play remix or just wait for next expansion.
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Yeah I’m starting to be able to trade stuff with others. Some even just take stuff for ilvl boost 
This was definitely the aim of the exercise to make content relevant again.
Why do people blame anything else than their own skill.
S3 was a joke. Who was learning what in keys between 2 an 6 for example? I recall being geared decently on my mage when season 3 started (not full bis, but had a couple items). The first boss in fall went down in exactly 18 seconds. Now what mechanic do you learn in 18 seconds, because it only does one. Same applies for trash there.
Learning process in keys can only start at around 12-15s, when you at least fight a bit for your life there. And most of the people tend to forget one thing: First know what your class does, then what a dungeon does. And you have to be far away from mastering your class to do a +2 now.
Also this season had an insane catch-up . Literally 5 480-492 items in open world from the weekly quest activities. Add 6 items out of 8 m0, with all the bad luck in the game, you would still have at least 6 items to play around, that have decent ilvl and might be pretty big upgrades from last season.
So probably people should really grow up a bit, and realize that it’s not the game, it’s the player.
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Exactly what i am blaming though.
I dont like this new system cause I enjoyed the fact you could skip the heroic and M0 grind to instantly play in M+ with an alt.
460 is fine for m0
Pugged a M0 run with an average ilvl on the group of around 470 ilvl. (i was playing an alt)
no issues at all. except for myself dying once on 2nd boss of Ruby life pools but that was mismanagement of my active mitigation and the tank buster hurts in this new format.
healing wise / dps wise it was all fine and so was tanking except that one mistake.
so it is a bit harder but i wouldnt call it a major issue or game breaking change… it just requires a new mindset.
Great it works for you!
Being done doesn’t last long enough for me to be happy with it.
Found, that all m+ are filled only with ranged dps, didn’t see any warriors, ww monks, only paladins, mages, bm hunters, also found that some of this dungeons are really hard to play as a melee (too much aoe, which u need to avoid and stop ur dps, lose uptime etc)
But anyway, if compare with s3, this system performes better
I’ll be your guinea pig.
Healer main, both disc and Holy - though mostly disc this season. Have been able to comfortably heal a +5 and even timed a few so it upgraded to a 7, once an 8.
Atm I’m ilvl 494.
Tried 3 times to get into a m0 academy to get an offhand. Not even killed a single boss.
Wiped 3x on the tree boss because people didn’t do mechanics.
Joined another group, saw that 2/3 dps had around 650k hp. From experience I know this wasn’t even decent in S3 so I excused myself.
So I made my own group. “fast m0”. Only 470 ilvl ppl Q’d up.
People think m0 is the stepping stone for m+. IT’S NOT!!!
It’s for semi geared players (as in current season gear) who wa
yeah . the problem is - majority still try to do this. thats why keys like 4-6 are nightmare to do atm .
because good players already farm higher keys and a lot of really really bad players get boosted in +2 and +4 by people desperate for score from that particular dungeon
i had a rogue in neltharus +4 which i joined who lieraly admited mid dungeon after like 10th death of his that he has never been in that dungeon . he didnt feel ashamed - he most likely didnt care.
he still got boosted by us because well i guess everyone needed that score and wyrm crests anyway .
so no the systme doesnt work any differently then before .
WoW is not an RPG. Its NOT a single player game.
What is the “minimum ilvl for a 2+”? Lets try and figure it out.
On wednesday I was doing +10 with 486 gear. So I would argue that 465 is MORE than sufficient to do a 2+.
So according to me the “minimum ilvl is 460” to do a 2+.
But guess what? Im not the authority on the matter. There are others on this very post that also had 485 ilvl and were struggling on a 2+.
So according to them the “minimum ilvl is 485” to do a 2+.
So what will it be? 460 or 485? Or maybe… just dont say anything and let people figure out their skill cealing on their own. There is nothing wrong with that.
OH please… You think you are the only one with a job here? Cry me a river…
It does not matter what you do outside the game.
You spent less time in the game, you get less stuff in the game. Its the same thing with Candy Crush mind you… you play less, you get less levels, less perks.
In in your job as well… you work less hours, get payed less.
What the mystery here?
So dont come to me with excuses.
You did not say it, but you imply it with your comments. Especially the one above.
Call tutorial whatever you want. Call it levels if you prefer.
You are focusing too much on semantics here.
The idea is that you dont just finish “Level 1” and jump right into the end-boss fight on “hard mode”. You dont do that.
You first have to progress through some sort of learning curve. For ALL games.
And that implies dying or failing.
Just don’t play the game if you don’t feel it.
I myself stopped playing the game and unsub. Waiting for the new expansion if it worths it.
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