That’s… What I said…
Unless you meant even less than 25% influence, then I didn’t say that.
Dude.
Gear isent the problem. Never was.
I told you. I did 10s with 489 ilvl. The pros are doing +16s already. If you cant do 2s in 450 gear is 100% a skill issue. And if you aspire to do harder things its skill that you have to improve. Not gear.
And people in this same forum cant stop repeating that skill >>>> gear.
In fact. The PURPOSE of gear is to offset a lack of skill.
So the question is NOT ilvl. Its SKILL.
You are WAY confused on how wow works. But here is a picture :
That is wow in a nutshell. And I repeat : The PURPOSE of gear is to offset that curve. And if you look at the list… GEAR is nowhere on it.
And ONLY if you got skill to do the hardest content, THEN gear will scale with the difficulty of the content. But ONLY then. And there are about 5000 players on the planet that are in that situation: Where they play SO GOOD that 1 ilvl increase translates directly to 1 unit of extra performance.
Pull all the examples you want. But you dont understand mechanics.
Destiny 2 power-level is linear. WoW power level is multiplicative.
And by power level I dont mean ilvl. I mean skill. A skilled player with bad gear will scale better than a bad player with good gear.
Because of multiplicability. Something Destiny 2 does not have.
And why? Simply because Destiny 2 is a shooter, and WoW is an RPG. And the way they work fundamentally makes for a different learning curve.
Or maybe they are… Or maybe, even IF you got that ilvl you still cant. You dont know that.
You are basing yourself on a number set by someone’s opinion.
Im done explaining the obvious. Have fun with this quest.
Ok, this sounds a lot like conspiracy thinking. I find it quite oblivious that you pull a hand-drawn, opinion-based graphic from Asmongold(?) and expect me to take that as the ultimate proof of a system that you claim to be different (while it is quite default for many games in fact) and expect me to say “oh, you’re right”…
I could go on in detail about how delusional your response is regarding a system that is integral to WoWs combat DNA and calling it quite irrelevant in comparison to player skill… But I won’t. Not because “you would be right” but because I am tired of arguing with a brickwall that fails to understand that the scaling of gear is the very system that enables your character (and therefore player skills) to even work.
I really want to see you try to beat a +10 key while wearing grey starting gear from a lvl 1 character on a lvl 70 character. Let’s see how far your (ego) “skill” will get you… 
Player skill beats gear though.
I have had people in more than enough gear to do a +10 that just flat out die to stuff in +5s because they don’t press their defensives.
I’ve seen a guy in ilvl 500 pull 120k dps overall in algethar when I as the healer can pull more if the group plays well and I can DPS more. He did 75k on the tree boss.
You can also see this in action with tanks this season: Tanks with ilvl 500 thinking they’ll breeze through neltharus only to get clapped by chargath because they’re not pressing enough defensives.
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If you don’t play mechanics, gear wont save you. If you don’t press defensives or interrupt stuff, gear wont save you.
Definitely gear wont press the buttons for you and kill bosses for you.
The whole conversation was about putting a “recommended ilvl of a dungeon”. And I said, difficulty of a dungeon has nothing to do with ilvl. It has to do with skill.
So if you assume that you play a dungeon with mathematically perfect skill. As in :
- You play ALL mechanics perfect.
- You interrupt on CD everything.
- You have the perfect comp for that dungeon (who also play mathematically perfect).
- Your rotation is executed mathematically perfect.
Then… you can use gear as a metric to gauge difficulty. And in that case, a +2 can perfectly be done with 460.
So 460 would be the “recommended ilvl” for a 2+.
But guess what. Nobody, not you, not me, not even Method pros play with “mathematically perfect skill” or run the dungeon with the perfect comp. Therefore, the “recommended ilvl” will depend on how much your skill deviates from that “mathematically perfect” execution.
And blizz cant know that. Therefore, there cant be a “recommended ilvl”.
If you cant understand that, I guess this conversation is over.
The reality is this season is much harder then S3 when people were expecting that blizz shifted their design direction
S3 was just accidental and we are back to m+ being very rough .
Some people can offset it with very extensive gear / crest Grinds.
Its time to accept that with this design philosophy alt playing will be pretty much dead in m+ . On other hand alts are clealry meant for mainly WQ content in Blizzard eyes
For now that’s not the case.
I struggled, aka pugged, my way up to ilvl 500 and rio 1550 this week. Highest keys done were +7. For context I heal as a Hpriest and sure I get declined by people that want to overpower keys but mostly I’ve had to only look for a min or two to get an invite.
I think I have done about 20 keys so far. Have timed every key +5 and 3 others higher than that. Like I sad my highest done so far is a +7 on what I feel are the easiest dungeons. These being Azure Vault and Neltharius.
The difference between difficulty in dungeons is ludicrous. Azure Vault and Nelth feel well balanced and can still punish you if you don’t do mechanics. Then look at Academy or Uldaman and even on a +5 I was struggling, especially on Vexamus and the last boss in Ulda. Might be because it’s tyran so will see next week.
I will get to 2k rio next week, you just need to time every dung on a +5 so it’s actually pretty lenient in that regard, but there’s still a LOT of tuning that needs to be done, especially on bosses.
Another thing is the loot. with 20 keys done I can count on one hand the times I got something out of the chest (4 times). This is not ok. I don’t want loot every run but 1 in 3 should be decent enough imo. Right now it’s 1 in 5, which is bad. I know it’s RNG but I’ve seen a lot of people experiencing the same.
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Which baffles me because the m+ participation was never higher last season.
With some balancing it will even out I guess,like I said at 500 ilvl I can heal a +7 so I guess in a week or two with my 4set back and some decent trinkets I can see a +10 being no problem.
It currently is 2 out of 5 (40%).
It is hard to talk about which dungeon is harder or better scaling. Basically every dungeon seems to have a boss that decides you can do (=finish) the dungeon or not. Like Ruby the last boss, or Nelths with the chains-boss (had a +10 1.5 hour run yesterday and everything was on this boss), or nokhud with the elemental boss.
Neltharus was like this in previous season too. That why i always was going right first as tank because if gropu can kill IT then you can finish the dungeon pretty much even untimed. Of they cant staying in such group is waste of time.
This week on my pala tank i Had to go though 7 groups till 8th was able to stay Alive and kill it
Most healers were unable to heal through 2 stacks and i was pummeled even with cds when i tried to do it 1-1-1
I even prefer doing them all at once. People suck running around too long and tend to die by the swirls on the floor so I actually prefer it over fast and everyone just dropping to 10% health. Boss is stunned anyway and I can top everyone up fast enough with CD’s
Well take into consideration that with enough crests you can eventualy get to what 512 ? Just with wyrm crests from +2 and champions gear
Ofc that in couple of weeks people who did +20 last season will do +10 this season especialy with bis gear from bulions and GV.
Problem is for people who are ATM unable to complete m0 and +2.
Those people for Gated from doing m+ exactly how i predicted it woudl happen .
The idea is to do them all at once. Also healers are bursty.
And it isn’t really about the healer. Every player needs to have an answer for every chain or dot they get.
I have yet to see healer WHO can heal though 3 stacks there when everyone is so low itlv.
Unless Monks revival can dispel those ? And that’s what gets you one free chains clear per fight
Yep, last season they could just go for keys up to 10 even and still feel like they could play the game. Hell I’m not ashamed to admit that on alts I did exactly this just to have a bit of gear, while I did weekly 20’s from week 3 on my main.
Now? Sure on this one I’ll have a decent vault next week, gear from a bullion and the KSM tier piece so that’s 3 upgrades.
I’m not even counting on getting gear from the raid tbh. Completed it 2 times this week and got zero while another priest got like 4 items in one run.
What you need to do is press a defensive and then we can heal through it. It is slightly sketchy since we need to be able to get somewhere that 1.5 second cast of Shielun going off, and those firepatches are obviously showing up under you when you want to start casting.
No monks can not dispell. I do see a 2 into 1 chains coming though on higher keys.
Sounds good in theory doesnt work for me as tank 
In 480 tilv in nelth +5 even with big cds on my prot pala as was literaly shredded there.
1st chains Guardian plus all minor cds , 2nd chain bubble 3 rd chain cheat death trinket and either group can kill IT before 4th or we dead
That’s my experience even with only 2 stacks . Cant imagine doing 3 even on tank . Dps woudl get instant pulverised with the quality of healers you get in low m+ keys.
You dont give yourself enough credit to how good you Play on your mistweaver mate
I cant comment on tanking. I get destroyed in M0 in 480 as tank.
I would probably for pugs go for 2 chain into 1. That it are pugs do not help. I have with my friends the dps deliberately instant running the chain into the boss. So when the damage comes is very predictable (so defensible and healable).
Let’s not overreact. This season is the first time in history of wow when I did 2k in one week (could’ve gone more but mostly played for fun on 5 characters so far).
In S3 I can’t say my skill grew that much, because well, it was dummy season. The only difference is that people stopped seeing 18, and be like :“It’s a big number…are we gonna manage it?”.
As I said in another thread, I tanked 10s-11s in 493-495, while last season I was not able to tank in 455 20s-21s. Once I put on the new 4p, it feels like using cheats. Tanked Nelt 12 in a full pug group with the nerf on chains way easier than I was tanking Nelt 22 in s2 in almost full bis gear, doing the chains. And yes, I’ve done even bigger pulls than I was doing back than.
Entry point in m+ might be raised a bit, but endgame m+ (weekly 10s or so) are not harder than they were in s2 and s3
That’s good to know because last Wed I for sure thought that a +10 would be out of my reach when I saw how +2 +3 was going, but I’m now already doing +7’s on the easier dungs. It’s mostly bosses so on fortified weeks people can push higher I think.
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