Gotta do lower YEP
Why can’t we say something else like…“wonder if the players will become better and start learning their classes, considering now the content looks harder?”
I had no issue playing all dungeons on +2 and clearing all in time. Most even with a +2 time.
The biggest issue however, is people not knowing
of the difficulty change even though it was a big topic.
I have seen people with normal dungeon ilvl thinking m+2 was still a minor step up from heroics and m0s. So they skipped heroic gear and m0 for higher ilvl gear in m+2.
Only to be dying almost every boss because of tyrannical / aoe effects.
Seen people not execute mechanics because: its only a +2, to then wipe because it isnt “just a m+2” anymore, but basically a +12.
There is no need to nerf anything. People need to do the following:
- have a basic understanding of routes being taken
- execute mechanics properly
- join with proper gear (ie 475+ for m+2 in my eyes)
- know your class so you can pull your weight (be that healing / dps or tanking)
- use interrupts
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The problem is that heroics are faceroll and teach you nothing about mythic plus equivalent because they don’t have the extra mechanics.
I tried m0 and as far as I could see, the difference between heroic and this was just that you couldn’t wall pull.
Expecting pugs to be coordinated in a 2 where it’s hard right out the gate maybe a stretch for pugs. It seems now that if someone misses one or two kicks, it’s a wipe, Or they get hit by a boss mech and they’re dead in one or two hits.
The difference between a hc and a M0 is huge. I geared up 5 characters through TW and hc and did with my main M0 & +2. The conclusion I came to is that the jump in the difficulty is enormous. The only thing hc can teach the pugs is the route maybe?
They must see Doti HM 
it is quite buffed and I love it.
I like how the two M+ split wings are replaced by HM now. Having to do extra mechanics is awesome. I am enjoying it now as I did in S2
Im demotivated to play already as I got 0 loot since the season has started lol. Previous tier stopped playing for exact same reason, and by the end of the season started getting all bis items.
I am also confused.
Normally I would say the same thing : Its a substitute for no content at all.
But on the otherhand we got the Plunderstorm and MoD remix.
Do they know what MY appropriate ilvl is? Or YOURS? Or … They cant say what is the appropriate ilvl for each player. They dont know the skill of people.
What you are asking is absurd.
But OK. Il give you the benefit of the doubt. Imagine that Blizzard said “reccomended ilvl == 470 for a 2+”. What would that change?
You think that by having 470 you will get invites to keys? NO. WHY? Because there will be people with 489 gear quewing for that same 2+. Why should they take you?
So then… what IS the recommended ilvl? 470, what blizz sais, or 489, what most players are actually wearing?
And what about skill? What happens if Blizz sais “470 recommended ilvl”, you show up with 489 gear and STILL wipe? What then? Is it 470 or 489? Or the other way around. I show up with my naked 450 alt and still time a 2+ even though 470 was the recommended value. What then?
You are asking for a ridiculous thing that has ZERO impact.
I did not accuse you of being lazy.
All I said is that you did not play for months. And as a result you got 465 ilvl.
Did I care WHY? NO. All I cared is that you walked to S4 with 20 ilvl LESS than everyone else expecting the same outcome/rewards as everyone else.
And THAT does not work.
You are the one complaining about ilvl… while having 465 ilvl at the start of the season.
It should have been obvious to you by now what the consequences of that were.
I dont know everything. But what I do know is that if you have 20 ilvl less than everyone else, you will be performing that much less than everyone else.
Logic.
465 is more then enough for m0 and +2 tho, i started playing last friday after a long break, at 445 ilvl.
Just make your own groups and you dont have to worry about invites.
Mate i was 480 when S4 started and it already Had huge huge consequences. Especialy for my tank alts
I cant imagine how problamatic everything Has to be for 465 people.
Most can as well give up because by the time they hit ,480 people will demand 500 itlv for ,+2 next week
To be fair, my resto shaman was just below 465 yesterday. Then i did feast, hunt, siege, 5 timewalking dungeons, rift and dreamsurge. Got a trinket from a WQ, spammed my flightstones and got close to 480. I applied for a ruby +2, got a weapon and am now 481.
I more wonder about my 420 holy priest 
If a large amount of groups start demanding 500 for a +2 that would kill M+ for alts, so let’s hope not.
Also it would reduce the player base doing m+ even further and would basically say that M+ is hardcore content only (like mythic raids) which probably wouldn’t be great for blizzards wallet and they want people staying subbed and grinding.
Let me tell you… Im scratching my head with the healer tier lists.
Cause RShaman SLAPS with the 2p tier set. I get guaranteed healing surge crits for 90% of the casts.
And at the moment its 500k normal, 800k every 3 casts because of Ondulation.
It means I can reliably heal tanks if needed. So good…
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I’ll be waiting for the incoming nerfs then, cant have us be decent can we 
Just wAit a week. Next weeks gear and guaranteed bis weapons will inflate itlv a lot. I have my 45 Drake 60 wyrm and 15 aspect crests more then ready to use on it on 3 chars ( not good enough to farm more aspect for now :p)
People having a rough idea what item level they should be with their gear so they can be sure their gear isn’t the problem when engaging content.
The content itself will still require player input to succeed. Nothing more it tells a player.
Joining groups isn’t the only way to play a key. With that info that a player is ready in gear they can then more confidently host their own keys, knowing they won’t be deadweight by gear alone (if at all).
To pull an example from the power recommendations used in Destiny 2 (one of the games I meant that show such info).
The game says “recommended power 1800”. Does it mean you have to be that power level to play the activity? No. You can play already with 1770 but it will be very hard. Everything above 1800 power will be enough to have a normal difficulty experience.
Does it mean you have a rough idea when you are ready to engage with such content in a game where your gear level matters? Absolutely.
In fact, the item level in WoW these days will matter A LOT more than the power level of items in Destiny 2, because Bungie is adding “Fireteam Power” with the next expansion, meaning that (if I didn’t misread the news article) the group leaders power level will be applied to every other player if below it (which means, if you are 1600 and your group leader is 1800, you are also counted as 1800).
Knowledge had always some sort of impact, even if you don’t see it.
The knowledge to know when your character is ready to engage with content. Doesn’t matter if it is “character level” or “item level”.
Now imagine a key would display a recommended item level. I would then know my characters items aren’t good enough to participate in certain content yet.
Logic 
You seem to still not understand that ilvl on a character is as good as the player playing on it. You can see on this forum people wrecked on +2s with 480+, meanwhile me and my guild 2 chested the same key in 460 gear.
You see healers crying here that healing is hard in 475, meanwhile a healer in our guild healed a +2 in pug with season 2 gear with no issues.
So which ones are the ones that are in the right here?
I am spending my time on forums lately just to have a lot of fun reading entitled people asking for things with 0 relevance, because writing an ilvl there won’t change anything. There will be still be players who will need 10 ilvl over that ilvl to do it, and there will still be players with -15 ilvl who will blast the same content. It will just become another things players will cry on forums cause “it’s not accurate”
No one actually. Because the system is neither designed to be strict nor to be irrelevant.
The scaling in WoW works with tolerance levels. So the gear is only 1 of the contributing factors, only being 1/3 or even like 1/4 of the requirements for a successful completion.
Them being:
- Player Skill (player rotation, talent selection, execution of teamplay)
- Level Knowledge (mob/spell types, attack patterns, etc.)
- Optimization (not standing in damage, optimal routes, etc.)
- Item Level Requirements (defines how your accessible resources behave - casting speed/damage/etc.) (as mentioned)
You don’t need to check every “box” of those 4 aspects to be successful in WoW. However doing so makes things gradually easier.
So optimizing your gear contributes for the most part to making things easier for you. Sure, you can play activities with inferior gear. But at some point you just hit the scaling brickwall and can’t compete, may it be again other players or AI (which also use that scaling system).
I’ve tanked 6 out of 8 of them at +2 now, might be able to do the other two tomorrow to get the full set.
Actually gear contributes the least.
Optimization means that you can perform with no issues, as most of the one shots are avoidable, and most damage is predictable now, so knowing when to use your defensives is way better than having gear.
Player skill does everything 3 times easier. I had numerous situation where with same spec and 20-25 ilvl lower performed better than someone with less knowledge than me.