yes ? for most players yes it is ?
you know all those stories aboout toxic m+ pushers and raiders making hc unfun ?
well now you will hear them soo much more often ,
Heroic is low scaled, on M0. But without mythic mechanics. I liked it to jump in low keylevels on my new alts, specs and roles. Heroic does not even serve the purpose of learning the dungeon.
I dont feel too good to do +2’s-5’s in previous seasons.
i like hc dungeons on week 1 of expansion .
after then they are completly pointless 
Well, apparently not anymore for many of us S3 low key players.
At 21:00 server time
You do realize that m2-m5 will be joke once you gear up, right?
m2 yields upgradable 496 literally above old BIS
I guess there is a dichotomy between those players who constantly need to be progressing and those that like to have achieved a goal of progression to a certain point. Process focused players vs goal oriented players.
I, like you, am in the latter camp. I like to achieve my gearing process and be done for a good while. I would like gearing to be done a couple of times an expansion. Once when dinged max and maybe again about a year later. Currently it feels like we’re just constantly gearing, or at least doing it every 4 months. But some players like it that way, I wonder how many are in each camp.
It’s hard to practice in heroics though, not all of the mechanics that mythic has are in those
M+2 is M+12 so current M+2 is their end goal of the season.
But I reckon the people that wants to jump directly into +2’s are around 440-465 ilvl, and instead of gearing through HC and then slowly getting into Mythic, they feel their baseline should be M0 (+10 before) and +2 (+11-12 before)…
That is what I mean with the ego… Spend a few days in HC, get geared and it will come. Why rush? What content would be there, if everyone was getting KSM the first week?
Once you have gear and can do M0 you have plenty of room to practice with no timer to rush you and maybe even other players that want to learn whom you can play with going forward too
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I think the main issue with practicing/learning in M0 is the weekly loot lockout. I feel M0 would be more suitable for that purpose if it had daily loot lockouts instead. This would give more casual players a way to learn and get some decent gear in M0 before tackling M+.
Players who don’t need to practice will do M+ right away anyway and could, if they wanted, just chain low keys for better gear than you get from M0 anyway, and without a loot lockout at all.
I healed a bunch of M0s now and they were easy to heal. I think I’d compare them to something like +8-10 in S3. As always it depends on the group too. I was in BH with a hunter who capped out at below 50k, and a paladin who didn’t do much more - that dragged the whole thing out. In the other runs I had two 250k dps and an aug, and everyone played the mechanics, so little healing was needed.
Tackling low keys later today or tomorrow. Probably tomorrow since I have a raid night today.
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Exactly, most of my M+ team from 2 minutes ago are around 465 and lemme tell you, Bromack oneshot us almost all the time.
Heroic Dungeons are still too easy. +2 Keys feel like a +16 key from last season now (minus the affixes). The experience is literally a massive brickwall with some broken ladders to climb it.
I am definitely not going to bother with Mythic+ this season. I tried playing it, apparently I am not the target audience anymore. Let’s just hope Delves have more to offer for me…
Edit: And I’m definitely not going to waste my time once a week in a M0 with a zero-to-none chance to even getting something as an upgrade. I rather go play other games instead.
Agree here, maybe they could’ve increased the HC ilvl drops, if they dont want to remove the lockout for M0. Seems the gap inbetween is too big
Why not do the exact thing there is inbetween a “HC is too easy” and “+2 feels like a +16” ?.. You’re skipping the M0 step?
and this is kind of what I mean, you and your group that you even say yourself is around 465 want to skip dungeons that award almost 30ilvl higher gear, and want to jump directly into +2’s?..
See edit:
Why would I waste my time with once-a-week activities when I want to have a chance to make DAILY a bit of progression? Not even Heroic Dungeons allow for that because Whelpling crests are cap-gated.
Why would you waste time raiding normal and HC, when your goal is to do mythic raiding?
Like why even waste your time farming honor points, when you’ll replace it first chance you get with conquest gear?
If you are 465 ilvl, almost every single drop will be a guarenteed upgrade? Given every boss drops something and there is what… average 4 bosses each dungeon and 8 dungeons you have 32 chances of getting gear upgrades?
Apart from that, you have LFR to do as well…
Its completely fair if you don’t enjoy gearing your character, but if you see M0 as waste of time with “zero-to-none chance to even getting someting as an upgade” then maybe the game is just not for you.
I can however say, I’ve done a +2 on all my healers that are around 465-475 and it was possible in each case. So it is possible. But hey, if you would rather sit out an entire season because you don’t want to farm gear 1 day in, we’ll see you next expansion I guess
M2 from today feels like a M2 from S3 to be honest.
Too easy. Mobs just melt.
I think you are being way too harsh on this system. Especially saying you will only play 1 char and that alts are dead.
They are not.
Its just that before you made your alt, and hoped directly to an M+2 in Green quest gear once you pinged 70. After a few +2 to +10 you hoped into +10 and above. In S3.
Now, you ding 70 in greens and you have to do a couple of heroic dungeons, get some gear from there. And THEN hop into a +2.
So its literally the same thing.
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But you aren’t wasting your time doing M0 dungeons if you can get upgrades from them that then make your M+ runs better. I’m going the M0 world tour today because it’s pretty much a guaranteed 493 item for each dungeon. I could do M+ right away, but the M0s are a good investment of time, at least for me.
Thank you!!
I don’t raid.
I don’t PvP.
And due to Crest limits I can maybe upgrade 1 item fully per week. Sorry, but that’s just too much drip feeding to keep me motivated.
Definitely will do, because farming gear 1 day long is as much fun as sitting in a school lesson all day with a teacher that can turn even the most interesting subject boring.
The last time I did M0, if I remember right, the game was constantly giving me the same item for the same slot despite it being my highest.
Sorry, but I am no gambling addict and I certainly don’t need that experience from Shadowlands again with getting items I don’t want or need over and over again.
And it sucks feeling wise.
I feel like an endgame player being pushed out of the endgame and slapped across the face with a “new player” sticky-badge.
Great when that is to you. Not to me. But you are basically M+ title skilled. I am not.
Yes they are. I can not slowly build up from +2 learn my spec in the dungeons with the right mechanics.
No. I geared them over a couple of weeks with outdoor weekly content, and/or with flightstones from my main by buying tokens and farming welphling and drake crests. I never got in with green gear.
How is M0 difficulty without mythic mechanics teaching myself for M+12 that i am not skilled enough for? It took me multiple weeks or even months to get over the M+10 keylevels. On some specs i capped out on +6.
it is literally not the same thing.
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