493 1/8 is not an upgrade? 
it’s better than s3 bis lmao.
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These are seasons geartables. What is the veteran loot coming from and the champion vault? I did those a lot before.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1055497924416647198/1232659967337828362/image.png?ex=662aec4d&is=66299acd&hm=4a2afcbabb023b759503bd66e1d60f25654fc158c5100b06a6e314d7d81ef5d0&
You were doing 25s last season. You cant seriously tell me that a 2+ is challenging for you…
Sure. Maybe you forgot some tech from S1 and S2… but that is (A) same feeling every season with new dungeons and (B) something that will be overcome in like… 1 run and 2 youtube videos.
Value yourself a bit more. You proved it season after season. And that is not me saying it, its YOUR rio, and your own post of your S3 progress graphs from last week.
Love you bro ! 
Its better. Because some M+ mechanics are just too much stuff happening at once to learn properly. For someone that needs to learn.
Much better to start in heroic with the basic mechanics of packs and bosses. Once the major stuff is learned, then add up all the nuances of M+ mechanics.
Seems so much more fluid to me IMO.
If learning is your goal.
Sorry. Il rephrase : You do your outdoor stuff, gear up, then hop to heroics and then to M2.
Like I said to Mistjo, you should value youself more. You proved it already. Its day 1 of the season. Its always “hard”. But in 3 weeks time everything will be a walk in the park.
No need to farm. Just play keys. And gear will rain from the sky naturally.
In 3 weeks you will be full hero. Trust me.
I mean I’ve hidden all my characters off of raiderio. Never had trouble. Can’t be that.
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We did +2 ruby yesterday and even wiped a couple of times. Yes, on my main. They surely arent the same as +2 previous season. And blizz also made it clear, it is now +12.
It is not better because i can not slowly learn.
Because i had the content where i can learn slowly. And depending on the spec i am making it higher or lower. My fire mage made it to +6, my healer to +25. My guardian druid barely to +20’s. Needed some boosts by those +25 players to get the portals. Same on my frost DK, but even a bit more boosts. And on my resto shaman i got to +19 in not even 3 weeks playing since i am a main healer and my resto shaman i have played for years as main.
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You missed the point…
Again…
But… It was the same last season?.. Whats the difference of you running Azure Vaults 32 times and having the same loot drop chance as if you did all 8 dungeons on M0 ?
Difference is, once you’re a bit more geared you’ll jump directly into +2 and then progress there…
Again, if you just want to be max geared day 1 and only push keys for rating, the game may not be for you 
You have the same odds (if not worse) in +2?.. But those you seems to want to farm on a daily basis for gear?
You forgot some tech in Ruby. Im sure in 1 more run you will say “ahhhhh so thats how its done”…
That does not mean a 2+ is intrinsically hard. It just means its part of the learning process. Just as it was the 1st day on S3, and S2, and S1.
OK, respect that. But I remain unconvinced. I still believe there are other reasons for all that.
You claimed a current +2 is the same as previous season +2 where you just do no mechanics and walk over the dungeon.
What is wrong with playing some alts from the start of the season, try to do some +2-5 and get a weekly vault champion item? It is nice to do low keys and see what happens in there and slowly learn. It took me 4 expansions to get to this level of healing. I just started dps and tanking. For now dps is my worst role. I seem to be really bad at it, especially in comparison to hpala, resto shaman and mistweaver which i all play for multiple expansions.
Absolutely nothing wrong. But don’t forget you carry some knowledge of the dungeon from your main. Especially if you play healer main. You know what hurts and what dosent.
So you dont need to start from scratch with every alt you touch. You can “skip” some steps.
I play 1 alt as well. And with it, I also suck. And also did not manage anything above a +20 last season.
But the reason is not the time (or lack of it) I spent in 1-10 keys. But simply because I played a LOT more with my main.
I had no time to improve with my warrior. Simple as that.
And I am sure that if I were to inspect your Mage doing +6 max last season… I will find out that its also the least played main you have.
I didnt play any pushkey for almost 3 months on my main. I picked up my tanking and dpssing. And switched to frost DK since i seem to be better at that than fire mage 
Still not good enough for +20’s, more like +17’s with 482 gear (considering i healed +17 in 447 week 1).
I wanted to pick up 2 new specs again this season; probably prot pala and enha shaman. But the content i enjoy doing and where i can slowly learn is taken away. So alts are dead now to me.
They literally don’t want to play HC because it’s below them, but at the same time complaining that m2 is too hard. 
Can’t make this up
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To be fair, it would help when blizzard at least add mythic mechanics to heroic. But then still the difference between heroic and m0 is still so amazingly big, you can’t learn slowly.
This is really it (: Overall I love the idea about more impactful difficulties but if we go from easy mode to tougher than normal raid suddenly this doesn’t work. What are we going to do for m+ dungeons once they aren’t from the current expansions? Play them on normal on an alt that is leveling? Or should people be forced to watch a guide (:
Nah. Lets agree to dissagree.
Every time you pick up an alt, the pack and boss mechanics you know 100%. That you carry over.
All you are missing is gear, and knowing the rotation.
And to be honest, you talk as if you need to learn how to execute the rotation perfectly before moving on to the next level.
When in reality, you don’t need to. Mechanics >>> Performance at keys <20 (S3), <10 this season. And this, you carry over from your main.
Im sad that alts are dead for you. But I am prepared to bet gold that you will change your mind.
Few weeks for visualization of new scaling to settle in the brain, and everything will be fine.
Well, you do have the dungeon journal there to check the boss mechanics. It is there for that reason specifically.
You still have to see the mechanics yourself, I need to, atleast, but that way you atleast can recognise that if a big bad circle shows up it should be soaked, or stay out of.
once good players who currently run them for wyrm crests are gone to +7 and higher ?
they will be brutal for people coming straight from m0
I am a slow learner. You can’t say ‘you play +25’s on your main after 8 years of practise on a specific role, so now you can do in a couple of weeks M+10’s on specs and roles you have never ever played before’. I just need a lot of practise on content that i basically overgear. Then i record all my runs and watch them back.
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There is no way that you will not receive at least few items from the m0 world tour, plus weekly loot.
Few weeks of that and boom you are more than ready.
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Expecting to be carried by overgeared crest farmers is not an act of progressing.
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