I am not good enough for M0 on my alts. That’s the whole point. There’s no difficulty anymore between heroic and M+10.
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That is only possible if you didn’t play those alts during S3. So yeah, get some catch-up gear from various sources like world bosses and dream surge.
You are simply trolling at this point. 
I am not. Looks like you are trolling. There’s no difficulty anymore between heroic and M+10. So i can not learn. I do not understand how that is so difficult to grasp. We aren’t all playing on 8+ years M+ of experience. People who are talking from their ivory towers 
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That is not the point. Your 25s are a combination of : 8 years playing MW monk. And months of running the same dungeon again and again, knowing that “this mob does this” and “that boss does that”.
For example: You did AD25. You know what Yazma does. You know the little jumpy dudes, and you know that Rezan does a fear and is a joke.
You know that.
So. When you pick up an Alt and play an AD (of any level) you carry that knowledge with you. Even if its a Heroic with less mechanics, or an M0. You don’t “forget it” all of a sudden.
And I repeat : Low keys mechanics >>> rotation. In S3 as long as you executed mechanics correctly, you could literally play with 2 buttons :
1 : Interrupt.
2 : random dps button. Any one.
And with that, you could time a 10+ in S3. Any spec.
The fact that you chose voluntarily to take the slow route because you prefer to take it with a more “chill and relaxed attitude” does not change the nature of the dungeon, or the system.
Therefore, to get that “chill and relaxed attitude” you had in S3, its sufficient to do heroics.
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Yes, and still with reasonable practise i got to +6 on a fire mage. Because i am very bad at fire mage. And i needed to slowly build up tanking and frost dk’ing too. I know stuff about AD, that does not make me goed enough for a +5 on a spec i have never seen before. I need tons of practise. And then on my resto shaman which i mained for a season even in BFA i instantly ramped up to +19 in 2 and a half weeks playing. I don’t understand why peopel dont understand the difference in playing a multiple years/expanions main or a role and spec you have never played before.
Give me any new healer and i am sure i am able to get to M+ in a reasonable time. But in comparison, i gave up leveling my prot warrior (now lvl 23 or something) in shadowlands since it is just too hard. While i am timing +24’s in M+ at the same time.
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And I am telling you that it does.
With your record, its objectively a fact. Weather you believe it or not, is something else.
Also, you could argue that you prefer to take it chill with your alts. Which is a different conversation.
Because being able to ~= to wanting to. The latter one is a matter of choice and there is nothing nobody can argue against that.
And that is where we disagree. I think your mixing those up.
You dont understand that the first M+ season on my main i also only got to +7. And then the next season +12, and then +14. Etc (considering those were every season even the same dungeons). And now i am supposed to jump on a completely new role and spec instantly on a +10. No sir, that is not how it works. Great for people for who it does. But i am not you.
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Just spam +2. You get Champion gear, a Hero vault slot and Wrym Crests even if you don’t time it.
As there is no deplete, you’ll never lose the chance at the juicy rewards mentioned above.
I’ve just been spamming HoI +2. Timed 6/8 runs.
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Mate m0 is a current +5 without a timer or affixes. They buffed m0 because people wanted to have more difficult dungeon content without a timer or affixes. If you can’t time a +2 you most def won’t be able to complete a m0. HC dungeons are the previous m0’s.
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This is what I also feel its about… People don’t even want to do M0 as they call it “waste of time” but then complain that they don’t get invited to +2’s as 465ilvl…
You can literally be in the M0 and reset BL for every boss if that is what it takes for you to get it down… You can RP walk and see every mechanic unfold… But still people expect to still be able to steamroll it, forgetting that even though +2-10 before was a gradual increase, they became obsolete SO quick… Trying to get a group for a +8 was almost impossible… Because why would people do it, when they could do a +9 for better reward that was as easy? Why would people do +12 when +11 was more efficient? it kept going…
Depletion isn’t the issue. It’s that they’re HARD and demoralising for casual players now.
We started with +2s (like everyone else) yesterday. We’re mythic raiders, 3.3k+ players, we know the dungeons, and we still had to be careful. We couldn’t just pull everything, ignore most of the kicks, and AOE it down the way we could have done in keys below +10 at the beginning of last season.
If it’s like that for us, with the experience we have already, it must be really hard for people who don’t have much M+ experience, who maybe didn’t do the dungeons in previous seasons, and aren’t coming into this season with s3 max ilvl gear.
That’s what I’m talking about when I say there’s a high barrier to entry. The first step into M+ is now much more difficult than it was, and much more likely to put people off wanting to continue.
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Could you link me the source of the buff?
I didn’t say the number is an upgrade, I said the chance to get one is the issue. I didn’t play M0 since 2 years. I have no idea if drops are RNG or not.
Now ask yourself why does it need to be “hard” in the first place? Imagine you buy a product and the vendor tells you “oh, you can’t really use it right now, it becomes easily usable in 3 weeks”. How would you feel about that purchase? Because WoW is after all a product. And when a consumable product encourages you to wait for the experience to get good, that means it is badly designed.
I tried today. And that’s the neat thing, I won’t!
See:
I literally tried a +2 key. I can’t go any lower. What you think happened?
Because last season I could just spam lower keys and have a chance for a better loot drop WITHOUT a weekly limit tied to it either due to crests or due to a loot lockout.
Since Heroic is the default now and M0 the “entry point” on a +10 key level from last season, I am thereby FORCED to grind for blue gear and slowly upgrade it if I want to have a fun experience AND/OR take my chances with a one-time loot drop chance in 8 different dungeons.
Sorry, but I don’t enjoy activities and games where I get the main loot maybe once a week, IF at all. Hence I don’t raid, hence I don’t pvp (because I know I suck in WoW pvp, as same as PvP itself sucks to get into).
You fail again to see the point. I don’t care about max ratings and max gear. But I do care when a difficulty spike in form of a grind brickwall is thrown in my way that is discouraging to play the game at all in PvE.
I definitely WOULD play M0 if there wouldn’t be a loot lockout and rather a drop chance like in a regular key.
Imagine I would play a M0 in the current system. I play 8 dungeons ONCE a week and what then? Suddenly I have almost 0 things to do in the game.
Loot lockouts for M0 are an issue. Same as the Whelpling Crest limit. Both only cause casuals to not even feel motivated to invest the time to get over that “entry barrier” (I would rather call it at this point an “exclusion barrier”). Simply because soft cap leveling itself feels timegated and without high enough gear preparation from S3 it feels (and plays) like you can’t even participate before lots of grinding.
Look at Tyssera here. Tyssera understood exactly what I mean.
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if only anyone could have predicted exactly this is gonna happen .
oh wait i did 
exactly what i said will happen is happening
i must be some kind of prophet if those genius devs in blizzard didnt
who do i send invoice blizz ?
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you do realise that m0 scaling is literaly the baseline for m+ scaling yes ?
The system wouldn’t* even feel as bad really if:
- Whelpling Crests were uncapped
- M0 had no Loot Lockout and instead drop chances like normal keys, allowing for actual grinding your way up
- Heroic would drop not blue stuff but literally the bost bottomline purples instead that can drop (it’s actually just 5/8 adventurer upgrade, just increase it to that)
People should never underestimate what visual and audible experience can do. I can’t find the relevant youtube video atm, but I watched one of a game dev who explained a situation in a shooter game they worked on where players didn’t play a specific gun at all, despite it being as good as the best gun in the game.
All they did to fix it was to make the gun sound more heavier and “impactful”. Suddenly the players did start to use the gun in masses… All of that, just because the weapon was as good as the best one but didn’t “feel right” to use.
Look at the graph and think again. The “Difficulty” isn’t moving, the activities are. When heroic moves up the graph it becomes harder.
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_entry_media/qp/QPD55AFMNRCG1709861481034.png
Before:
- Heroic < M0
- M0 = M0
Now:
- Heroic = M0
- M0 = former 10+
fixed a typo there*
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Casual players asked for relaxed no timer dungeons which will yield decent loot.
If only such thing would exist… 
Oh right! the heroic dungeons serve that purpose now
476 upgradable to 488 
Simple queue, no rio inspections
No timer no depletion
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Well, sucks I guess that the Whelplings Crest cap still bottleneck said casuals.
What would be the harm if they reach 488 within a week? All in all that would only mean that more players could engage with the endgame which might even result in more casuals becoming core players for those activities.
What you think why I started bothering with Mythic+ in the last season of Shadowlands? Because I felt like my efforts actually yielded progression and thereby a feeling of being rewarded for the effort.
Before that time, I only played WoW for RP and the occasional heroic dungeon.
Back then I was a casual. Today I’m not anymore. That’s called “player progression”. And WoW really needs that for its endgame activities en mass.
PvP (queues) only work(s) if enough people participate. Raids only work if enough people participate. Mythic+ only works when enough groups are created.
What have all of those in common? They need players to start. And good players to finish.
You don’t get good at a game over night. And especially not if the game isn’t actively encouraging you to become better on your own by motivating you with the right amount of rewards and playing experiences.
Yup thats how seasons work. Each season we start anew and build ourselves once again.
I think the level at which you left s3 has a massive impact on s4.
At 485 ilevel, I was able to go straight into keys, but someone who finished below that might end up farming HCS again.