Season of Discovery - Thoughts

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
1

First of all, it’s amazing that you’re willing to expand on the Classic WoW content for new and unknown areas!

But, with that said, there’s a very fine line between improving what’s there and ruining it.

Some thoughts after watching BlizzCon and hearing out the panels and giving it some thoughts myself.

Feedback and thoughts:

Tanks:
Having Warrior, Druid, Paladin and Shaman tanks being balanced is AMAZING!
Having Paladins as an additional viable tank on Alliance side and Shaman tanks on Horde side is great! Shamans has always had this feeling that they was supposed to get a tank spec but never happened and paladins has always had a tank spec but not viable.

But adding a rogue tank and warlock tank to the game feels completely unnecessary and weird imo. This is so out of the blue for the Classic WoW community and i have never during my 18 years if playing WoW (especially Classic WoW) heard ANYONE asking for this.

Having 3 tanks on each faction and Paladin and Shaman being faction specific would have been the perfect balance.

Healers:
Again, balancing resto druid and giving other classes new toolkits is such a brilliant move. I love this and this is exactly what me (the classic community?) has seen as possible “Classic +” changes.

But once again as I mentioned earlier with the tanks, who has ever asked for mages to become healers? I understand that you want to try things out. But not even Retail WoW has gone this far with distancing classes from their own class fantasy.

DPS:
There was so little information about this that it’s hard to have a solid opinon here. But from what I’ve seen I think it looks great. Especially balancing specs that haven’t been viable before are some amazing changes and something we’ve wanted for years!

Except one thing: Don’t take WF from the shamans and make it an “enchant”. Either you give alliance shamans and horde paladins or don’t change it at all. Again, completely ruining the class fantasy which is such a big part of Classic WoW.
I also think that shamans should have gotten a more viable way to use two hand weapons instead of going dual wield. Especially since there’s more specs wanting one hand weapons in the game than two hands, so this could really be the “king of two hands and big crits” kind of spec.

“Rune Enchanting:”
I’m not sure if this idea is a good idea. It feels like it’s a great way to end up like retail wow with bloated systems that in the end only have a cookie cutter spec anyway. I think reworking and improving the talent system and add dual spec would have been the perfect implementation.

PvE:
Just taking an old instance and make it a 10man and add some “new bosses” and call it a raid feels extremely cheap and low effort. I see what you’re trying to do, but not sure if this is the way to go, since BFD will never give you this epic feeling of a raid after being a low lvl 5man instance for the past 18+ years. Raids should have been new places (like the Kara Crypts etc) where we venture in to unknown places to give that epic raid feeling.

Besides that, there’s so little information about PvE that it’s hard to say anything. Where will we farm pre-bis? Is there any 5mans at all?

Level Cap 25:
This I kind of like, especially if you make it progressive and releasing “new levels” over let’s say 1 year and you end up at lvl 60 where we then expand on the Classic Era to become the true Classic + we’ve always wanted! But then again, what’s the point of doing end-game content at lvl 25 if all you’ve worked for becomes wasted progress after 3 months when lvl 30 is released? It kind of gives me the same feeling as retail wow where you lose all your character power progress every new season, which in my opinion feels like ****.

PvP:
Not that much information here, but would be cool with a ranking system that you work on and get gear towards your journey to 60(?) and by the end of that journey if done correctly you get “rank 14”. But same here as with PvE, will it feel like a waste of time because the character power will reset every time a level is released?

Additional change idea:
Would have been really cool if you added more Class / Race combos, such as human hunter, orc mage etc.
A LFG tool that is not automated but a place to sign up & create groups.

I know this is a long post, and I NEVER post on the forums. But if this gives us, the community a chance to get our voices heard I’ll give it my chance in a hope to align the developers vision with the players.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading and please tell me what you think!

/Peace.

8 Likes
2

Actually there is some neat theorycrafting about this, it was niche but it definitely exists.
CF. what did Gideon / Caperfin

We are some. Just look for “mage healer wow” on google

This is perfectly fine regarding Classic Lore

Agree, but maybe they want to recreate the feeling of patch releases with a standarized pacing, I kind of understand if it allows to “rediscover” the old world at a new rythm, and IF it’s not all for nothing in the end of the Season.

Agree too - there is room for such combos in the Classic lore

2 Likes
3

Look, technically if you can think of something it’s existed in some shape or form and been requested by at least one person. I think the key take away here is: The greater community(Or any community that’s had it’s ideas touch above the waterline) didn’t ask for these kind of things such as a rogue tank or mage healer.

They absolutely take away from the class identity. They also changed how core mechanics work which are definitely NOT lore friendly. For one: Paladins can cast Exorcism on any target - this doesn’t make sense. How can you cast Exorcism on a living being that’s not possessed?

I don’t know how to quote specific parts on these forums so I’ll cut my reply to Azjaxandrin there.

My reply to OP:

I don’t like these changes. They very much remove class identity and there was a very big reason why the original devs made the classes the way there were. I’m talking about Paladin’s not being able to Taunt. The reason for this is because it was considered to be too powerful to give to a Paladin. They were tanky, very versatile, had a very diverse kit(One of the very few classes that can tank, heal and dps) and were always useful. In vanilla and Classic new raids were almost consistently beaten with Alliance due to Paladin versatility(Pretty much just as healers and the unique buffs they give).

I can tell you there are definitely a few dud specs they’ve thrown in that they won’t continue with but quite clearly a few they fully intend to implement. Rogue tanks: That won’t pass. Paladin buffs across the board: They will pass that. Tank warlocks: They will pass that regardless of what people say or how they feel about it. Disc Priests: They will pass this - imo Priests were probably the only improved class(For the sake of the health of the class and the game) with the changes made in WLK Penance being a major turning point.

I have a strong suspicion they will make it so Paladins are more in line with WLK paladins. I.e. Beacon will be core(Already a rune for Paladins) which will make them the best healers in the game as it did in WLK. It’ll make them the best arena and PvP healers and with the insane taunt they get it’ll make them the best tank in the game(20% block chance by default, 80% threat generation on top of the threat generated by Righteousness and being able to taunt and a few other buffs too just from ONE rune). They will also get a lot of utility with some of those seal changes which will basically make them a melee shadowpriest(Mark of the Martyr).

Already I can list all the classes and tell you how these changes are now molding them into versions of other classes. The class identity is being lost here. They are doing what they did in WLK(And to a far lesser extent in TBC) where they give all classes who can fill a role the ability of other classes or “new” abilities that are very similar to existing other class abilities in some shape or form. There will be no “gaps” between classes. If one healer spec can AoE heal ALL classes that can heal will have the opportunity to AoE heal. If one class can taunt ALL classes can taunt.

This isn’t good for Classic. It’s a major LOSE. It’s the same thing with Looking For Dungeon. People wanted it, it was a QOL improvement but it detracted from the game as a whole.

Listen to me: Sometimes you shouldn’t get what you want just because you want it. There are limits. There are rules. There are bounds. If we got everything nothing would be unique or fun. These changes are things that should not go through. They will take from the game as a whole and already they’re very closely resembling the changes which were made in WLK.

I’m very much against this. I think they should add to classes but keep to the core tenets of class building: 1. Forget balance - balance isn’t fun(Just don’t make things OP). 2. Class Identity/Class Fantasy - this is core. 3. Uniqueness of each Class - Each class should be kept unique and distinct. This is an extension of Class Identity but it must be stated: Classes need to have pros, cons and unique mechanics/abilities that set them apart. 4. If you can multi-role there should be some balance there: i.e. a Paladin who can tank, heal and DPS should be a jack of all trades, master of none. This last point was the mantra of the original WoW development.

2 Likes
4

I agree, the general ideas and concept is great, and I am hyped, but the runes overall are way overboard. 100% mana reduction for wrath for Druids? I mean, they sure needed a way to sustain mana better to be viable, but 100%? Really?

Rogues get a gap closer? This is not a tweak to classic to shake things up, it’s completely game changing, and not in a good way.

Let’s not even get started with mages getting a heal, which from watching demos from Blizzcon on top of it all seems extremely overpowered.

Can’t we get more flavor runes instead? I like the lone wolf rune for hunters, since it allows you to play the class differently. The shaman/paladin tanking runes are great, since it builds upon existing non-viable concepts.

Looking at the mage for example, most of the runes are basically dps abilities borrowed from later expansions. It will do very little for the class fantasy other than making an already strong class stronger, and frankly more retail-like. Give classes runes to buff areas where needed (for the mage example, this would be arcane), and just add flavor runes for the already strong specs.

4 Likes
5

My thoughts:

  • Take some crap from retail and make them fit by force into classic, instead of fixing the game. → Eventually only meta classes w/ specific talents + runes setups will pop-up; forcing players into a kind of tunnel gameplay. → RPG inmersion is lost. → meta specs will raise, new brand of meme specs.
  • Build an invalid progressive and seassonal experience so once you step on the next phase, the rest is lost for ever. → Noone will ever raid BFD once the level cap is above 25.
  • Seassons + limited level cap will produce a different outcome than expected.
    For a level cap of 25, means the following:
    – We will be “stopped” for more than a month on Barrens/Ashenvale/Stonetalon Mountains.
    – People will raise their characters up to level cap in a few days.
    – Content will be cleared, for most players in less than a month.
    Outcome: people will lost attention and focus, and most of them won’t come back to go on next phase.
    Reason: appart from a 5m dungeon transformed into a 10m raid, there’s no other challenge that prevents players to reach the end game and hunt down all discoveries in less than a month. Unless … discoveries will spawn in a daily time period; then players will be force to log-in every single day to do their dailies.

Seems to me … as @KungenTV was stating, that the team developing classic has never played Classic back the way it was played in 2004-2012. They just think on adding temporal and seassonal things. Bullet items in a MMO-RPG game as character progression, enhancement and in-game communit development, no longer are valid. Everything must stay just for a 3-months period time, and move on to another thing.

Friendly reminder for Blizzard

You claim that 30-yo players are now raising and branding new heroes into Azeroth.

Those 30-yo players, up to day, still play Vanilla, either your #some-little-changes Classic Era edition or private servers.

Those 30-yo players is your retail base world wide community, because latest generations of players all around the world do the following: purchase the new expansion set, play it for a month, drop untill next content.

No old-players where asking for this.
There’s no forum or site which was talkingabout something similar to SoD.

So, what community of players are you listen to?

4 Likes
6

I’m going to disagree, because every 5 levels in Classic isn’t the same as a whole new expansion. The lvl25 BFD items you get will still be good at lvl30. It’s not like Classic where you throw your t2 pieces away for Outland greens.

On top of that, the 10man instances will still be used for levelling alts. The BFD showcase made it look easy, so it’s not a high concentration min/max gamemode. Esfand was able to do it without using his weapon inbue on a shaman or any of his abilities as a paladin. The players used to stream the demo at Blizzcon were so bad that the instance itself can’t possibly be difficult.

Assuming it gives plenty of exp at lvl25, it’d still be worth repeating on multiple toons.

7

I couldn’t find the source for SoD changes, could you link it?

Indeed Exorcism on living beings is concerning and looks like blatant Retailised.

To be honest, it is the principle of levelling.
Once you finish the BFD dungeon on Classic Era you won’t come back there either.

Which is concerning is the mindset behind this decision: is it a sandbox to drive players towards a greater, lvl 60-capped Classic Unpublished game? Or is it again a Power-Creep-driven game in the end?

It is the outcome that matters.

8

Yest, you are right.
Once your character moves on levels after BFD range you never take an step on it back again. Except for new alter characters.

But in this scenario, once level 40, 50 and 60 caps are released, in those later phases BFD raid will never be done again, even for newcomers or alter characters; because the level cap is now later on, and the “end” game content is no longer a 25 level raid.

So BFD, as raid, is lost once the level cap is raised.

9

Correct, let’s hope this is “experimental” and they somehow manage to have these “levelling raids” as end-game raids too, later in development.

1 Like
10

I can already hear the Scarlet Crusade laughing in your face.

…Since when is WoTLK ‘retail’?

Except when you’re levelling a new toon. Or do you just never go back to old dungeons for quick exp and gear when levelling?

Time will tell. A lot of people wanted Classic+ as in add things to Classic, but that’s when power creep becomes a problem. How do you add things to Classic without making everything insanely strong?

Instead this is a re-work as well as an addition. It being a ‘temporary’ realm to me says Blizzard are just testing the possibilities while using Cataclysm as a low-effort cash grab.

11

In the past I actually made few posts about mage healer/support spec, though it’s fantasy was more orianted around shielding/time warping/stopping (disc priest 2.0 which focuses on preventing damage). For example - strong elemental shields, party shields, then stop target time (they take 0 damage), alter time for a target (basically move their HP backward in time, etc.).

So I am happy to see healer mage spec, heal damage that tank took over 5s, seems interesting, and surely this will not be your every day healer. Might actually be some fun way to heal, that we’ve never seen before.

I am just surprised we didn’t get hunter tank that focuses on tanking with pet.

12

I like it, a few months ago I asked for Classic +. This closely towards this idea. This is more Classic +++ with everyone getting so many skills. But I like it. This will be great.

13

Q&A :

How long are you planning to have Season of Discovery last?

  • We want to let it have fun but not overstay our welcome.

So it seems disposable “junk” Season. More like an open beta made official…
A bit sad.

Since The Burning Crusade.

Storytelling, worldbuilding, alt-friendly, horizontal progression.

1 Like
14

Classic was never really about the story. It was about exploring a world with a story already built, most came following W3.

You mean like using originally planned but unused zones, like Kara crypts? I’ve got some good news, buddy.

You mean like… WoTLK? That you just called retail.

WoW isn’t a horizontal progression game and hopefully never will be. Horizontal progression is awful.

It also wouldn’t suit what some of you want for Classic anyway. What do you get from horisontal progression, new item models? That means getting a system similar to transmog. And do you know what that means?

People screaming ‘retail!’

15

I don’t care to be honest, it’s the only way.

Classic was about the story. Not about a main campaign with characters like Garrosh or Anduin, but a handful of little stories in the regions, all over the world, that felt like a huge world.

16

‘Hey I’m rag, kill me for loot!’
‘Lol you killed Rag. My mountain now! Hold up, you killed my sister? kill me for loot too!’
‘Trolls revived me, kill me for loot and my followers for a super special tiger!’
‘Eye see you, kill me for loot’
‘I see you adventurers have been waiting for me since WC3: TFT, now kill me for loot that you’ll throw away in TBC!’

Good story. Can’t wait to see what else gets added.

1 Like
17

How clueless indeed

1 Like
18

I’m very glad that SoD will get rid of a lot of the insufferable “my way or the highway” kind of players. FFS play Era if you want the true Classic experience.

Going around asking for Classic+ for years and when Blizzard is finally making steps in that direction “BUT NOT LIKE THAT!!”.

Guess what, there will be even more runes in later game, the 100 runes they revealed are only for the 1-25 level bracket. Who knows how much more interesting things they’re adding.
This is exactly what people who asked for Classic+ wanted, even if they don’t realize it at the moment. They’re expanding the game horizontally instead of vertically. If you want vertical expansion you’ll get TBC again.

3 Likes
19

Dude will you relax? It’s a season of x, which means after one year it’ll be over and done. Gone.

“It’s soo bad for the game blabla”. Is era gone? No? Then keep playing there. It’s the mostly untouched version where more than 70% of the specs are not viable in pve, which was fine back then, but now with the new season they are trying to see a ‘what if’ scenario.

Don’t like it? You have other options while you wait for the next season of x in 1.5 years.

1 Like
20

This. Everyone and their mother has their own idea of classic+. Mine even includes TBC and I know many would be opposed to it.

Seasonal servers that are already classic+ are the best. Everyone would abandon the server for era/cata/retail anyway after they experienced the new stuff for a few months. Blizz knows this so we get season of x.

You will never ever have a permanent classic + server because you can’t (permanently) please everyone on this topic.