And this board (as well as the WoTLK one) keeps preaching about how the world meant something in Classic. Interesting.
This does have a right or wrong answer. The answer is simple: Don’t like? Don’t play. It’s an experimental server. Would you people prefer it if changes weren’t tested beforehand and just thrown straight into era? That would ruin the entire point of era.
We’ll see. But ‘lol raid will be dead content soon’ applies to everything you’re all asking of ‘Classic+’ anyway.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
/out
That’s cute.
Care to elaborate? Because I’ve seen so many different wishes for classic+ that I just can’t agree it has unified ‘must haves’ aside from general stuff that is very open to interpretation like “I want more viable specs” or “more raids”.
If I look at posts that actually go in depth with their wants I see a bit more examples on more viable specs, which are almost all solved in SoD so checkmark there. Other very popular demands are kara crypts or a SM raid, both present in SoD albeit leveling raids but it’s new and extra content so another checkmark.
Blizz also confirmed we’ll be getting never seen before content at max level so thats another checkmark, though we don’t know how it will look yet.
Literally all things they’ve added in SoD are things people have asked for before, but it’s not in the way they personally wanted so they write it off completely before it’s even released.
I’ve literally seen a guy complain that he just wanted slightly altered talent trees “none of this rune bs” (his words). Sorry but I can’t take those people serious.
What I can admit is that classic+ wasn’t seasonal in most people’s minds, though that’s easily countered as well. 6 months ago blizz revealed they were working on the next seasonal vanilla server. They never claimed this was going to be a permanent thing, just like SoM wasn’t. People just jacked up their own expectations, thats their own fault.
I hope they go as wacky as possible with SoD.
Maybe is our own fault … maybe not.
Here’s an example:
Runes are not new classes.
Neither is balancing current classes.
Giving exiting classes a way to customize their gameplay so they can now be (almost) all of them tanks, dd’s or healers is not adding existing classes in lore to player’s options (demon hunters, death knights, mage tanks, etc.). Adding this new classes would imply designing talent trees, skills, trade-offs, counter spells, etc.
This is something (runes) that was never asked for.
Maybe some adjustments of especific talents, maybe some fixes on especific talent trees, or giving current classes and specs real features so there’s no longer meme-specs.
You could say “is kind of giving you new classes/specs”.
But it is not.
And the output of runes will be the following:
Based on that game is currenlty unbalanced (talking about classes, spells and talent trees), givgin extra spell-customization will eventually create “hyper-meta” classes. So those who dream about taking their mage-tank into dungeons/raids will found out that noone will look for them because the best tank is whatever-other-runed-class. The same will happen with DD’s or healers. So we will now have a set of new “hyper-meta” classes and a new set of brand “meme-specs”.
And if you expect that Blizzard will provide us with balanced content so now all this new set of custom-classes will have their spot in end-game; please take a seat and watch players making their own way to beat that content in other different and completely strategy (note: originally no developer would have expect 10+ r14 warriors on pve raids, neither fury-protection tanks to mitigate the damage-aggro-gap).
To sum up:
Is Blizzard giving us new content? Yes.
Is Blizzard giving us new experiences? Yes.
Is Blizzard listening to its community? No.
+1
Very well written!
But balanced content is boring. Every DPS spec has to have nearly the same DPS, every healer the same HPS, and every tank the same TPS, survivability, and more. Also Classic Vanilla isn’t a competitive game, and by now a refuge for people that find WoTLK to difficult, too complex, and that’s still far off from modern competitive and balanced MMOs.
I understand your points, but I still do believe this is meant to be a testing ground of sorts to gauge how we’ll react to some of the changes.
Iirc blizz said they are thinking about more premanent servers for stuff like this, but nothing is set in stone yet.
At the end of the day we can discuss on forums/reddit all we want, if SoD does well and people play it throughout it’s lifespan blizz will consider it a win and will draw it’s own conclusions from there.
Personally I think it will be popular, and the way it’s designed with timegated leveling with extra content in the midst of it will keep things very interesting indeed, but that is my own opinion.
No. Thisi is a MMO-RPG, that means that your class plus your spec serves for a function within the content, either is a dungeon or a raid, or pvp, or outdoor content.
I agree with you that all classes should have, at least, the same suvivability. But not the same range of spells/skills. If every one is able to do whatever they want, what is the meaning of role within the game?
Blizzard could have done a lot if they do add “tank” builds for Shamans, Warlocks and Mages, by adding new trees (as an example). But taking a bunch of spells/skills from TBC/WotLK/Cataclysm and adding them to the Vanilla experience will eventually destroy Vanilla experience.
They’re kind of retailling a 20-yo game that is played and loved because it forces the 20-yo inmersive social gameplay.
It is seassonal, and won’t last forever.
But I am afraid, as so many, that what outcomes of this are “retail classic” with content that “classic” players would love to play, but with mechanisms and gameplays that they will hate.
Too add my 2 cents on this topic:
I think the changes coming for SoD seem interesting.
Will they be the end all, be all? No, probably not.
What is wrong with trying out something new even if it doesn’t last?
Absolutely nothing.
As someone who has been staying away from all forms of WoW for a while, these changes are most definitely getting me interested again.
The only big issue I have is something else though.
The Classic ERA PTR Client has some of the Season of Discovery changes in the backend and the dataminers have already struck and now it will be a Season of Datamined things, instead of actual discoveries.
I am honestly looking forward to SoD though.
While it may not be perfect or won’t be able to compete with other classic+ versions out there, I think we can still enjoy SoD for what it is.
A break from the monotony of vanilla WoW.
Classic was never balanced, so why should SoD be?
I feel like most people who dislike the announced changes are scared of the unknown.
Now they can’t hyper optimize the already solved classic wow from the get go and might have to do something experimental and maybe not optimal.
Which is great.
Adding something completely experimental and new sounds … great.
And if we add a mysterious layer without any PTR provided, perfect!.
That was Vanilla gameplay back in 2004, 2005 …
Noone knows nothing, we didn’t have WoWHead, MMO-Champion, and we were forced to explore, to read the quest log, to make our way through the game.
The problem here is that they haven’t added nothing … new.
They’ve taken a bunch of things from later expansions of the game and placed them in level-gated version of an 20-yo game.
That’s, IMO, a really bad design.
I’m not afraid of the unkown.
I’m afraid of massive possitive feedback on some changes from people who do not really cares about the ROL GAME PLAY and only wants higher and higher numbers on the screen … because it has became trendy by a set of youtuber/streamers. Eventually making to bring those changes into classic things that do not belong to classic, and watching how those youtubers/streamers moves onto another trendy thing leaving the game totally unknown.
I’m not gonna say “do not play SoD”. As I also don’t say “do not play retail”. Never.
But do not mix. things; and SoD is mixing things.
Nobody forces you to play SoD. Era is still here. It’s their right to make a seasonal server that will not persist if it’s not very popular and goes crazy with changes.
We had Sweatlord Raider season, and now we have do-crazy-stuff and crazy-meta season, after which we will have a few seasons more after which they may opt for an extended classic in-between version and some additional content like new vanilla-style expansions to have a Classic+ saga lasting 4-6 years.
There is no retail here. Such distinctions are childish. And you don’t have any moral high ground as well to tell people what is “good” and what is “wrong”.
And a lot of those specs aren’t finished in vanilla and serve no purpose. Same as 30 warriors in a raid group isn’t very RPG when it’s just pure numbers and meta. People don’t play bis classes in bis builds using bis gear because it’s an RPG choice, but because it’s the best option, it’s the meta. There is very little choice and freedom in vanilla for most content types.
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/hk%E2%80%99s-missing-after-classic-era-patchpvp-update/464038/75
15/11/2023 Always missing 75 000 hks. One years of PvP 2019-2020 until TBC release.
Always missing hks. Bring back our HKS, stolen. Thank you
Guys IMAGINE ranking A G A I N in Season of Discovery and see your next HKS farming DISAPEAR.
Just imagine.
Oh my dear Lord.
I’m giving my opinion on SoD.
You may have another.
Good is something that serves as benefit for a cause, a person or an enterprise.
Bad is the opposite.
Something that seems to be good may can be, indeed, terribly bad.
My opinion, and this is not open to debate, is that SoD changes are bad.
Is your opinion different? Right.
So … instead of reducing the number meme-spec, is it better to have a new set of meme-specs along with new meta ones?
I mean, there is no goal on imprioving druid balance, shadow priest, paladin retribution, mages, locks, rogues & hunters if at the same time you’re improving warrios too. If currently the meta (for DD) is warrior fury r14-geared. In SoD is going to be warrior fury r14-geared w/ specific set of runes.
The same is appliyable to tanks and healers.
Blizzard has decided to give us this kind of “experiment” with the runes, allowing players to build some kind of new classes specs; but they have not invested any time at all into balancing the differences between clases and specs. So at the end, what is badly designed, will be empowered badly designed.
Time will say …
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