M+ needs to feel challenging, but achievable, the simple fact is people like feeling powerful but not like the key was a walkover.
DF s3 and s4 had moments where I felt like it was a failure, but in the end we made it, and that felt amazing.
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the biggest mistake is this -15 sec on death affix. Who thought it’s good in the “World of Almost Random One-Shots”
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This, I did a mists +8 last night, should of been a pretty easy key with a group of 610 geared players, who all had 3k in the last season, and had some heroic raid experience.
A mistake by one person lead to a wipe, and the key wasn’t timeable as a result, this penalty is insane.
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yea, and while we´re at it pls do not stop at M+ gearing, as much as it sucks right now. Why should a world only player that plays the whole saison (for some reason unknown to me) not have a full mythic set at the end of it? Everyone loves getting more powerful. The gear-gating is just maddening in general.
If you need your mythic gear to stand out because you can´t stand out with your skill you are probably the one that does least deserve it.
They absolutely do not play for the challenge. If they wanted challenge they’d demand gear be completely removed from “hardcore” content or play a game that didn’t have stat altering gear.
WoW is the apex of “I want nice stuff and I want others to not have nice stuff”
I only play RPGs to get OP as heck and then batter everything.
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I think ive said my bit in this thread already but not sure.
The M+ system got re-worked at the end of the last expansion. Most likely due to the fact that blizzard wanted to accomodate the %1 who are in the +20 bracket who moaned about having to go through the lower keys on their way to their place in the system.
The vast majority of players did not ask for this. I did not. I would not either.
This reword punished, hampered, inconvenienced or outright locked out everybody else that was under those people. The stat dungeon squish now made the M+ scene plainly clear what your limits are.
Were you able to do a 10 last season?
If the answer is no and you are now struggling to do a M0 then you are, according to blizzard, exactly where you need to be. You are not capable of doing a M0 as that is now the same as a 10 from last season.
This was intended.
I did not do many M+ during DF> As a matter of fact i hardly played the expansion at all. The highest i got before i left in disgust was 8 and i did not have to try very hard. I did M+ in SL and reached 15 so i knew what to expect.
People now have to take into account the new system of M+. A 0 is old 10 and so on.
The instant ramp up of difficulty was quite a shock to me as i used the lower keys in previous expansions to work my way up.
I cant do that this time around and for the frist time i am losing interest in M+ and wow in general now. There is no gradual ramp up. It is now straight up in your face. Sink or swim.
I think this is troubling a lot of people. I know it troubles me. I am once again working my way up one key and one dungeon up at a time but it is trouble. I am seeing people in 5’s not doing mechanics.
I was told off in a thread by lots of forums regulars here for expecting people in a M0 to know mechanics. I bet all you who told me off for that, now wont be saying that at all . A m0 is pretty much last seaons 10 so you better know the mechanics at that point.
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Same for me, I don’t like to sweat and I really enjoyed doing low keys to learn and chill with alts.
for me its kinda strange kinda refreshing experience.
for the first time since BfA im not spamming m+ .
i went from runing 13 alts though m+ in s2 of DF to not doing them at all for now as i just value my time to much to make frustrate myslelf.
i wont lie - if it wasnt for dvwlves i would be most likely already on break .
maybe its time to go back to cata classic for a while . dunno we will see 
I tried an m0 on my 579 bear. We had a resto druid at 530 ilevel(!!) in the group. Top spells were rejuv and regrowth, no trees used, lifebloom only 5% of the time. Ughhh.
So the pugs certainly don’t help either.
Then explain why people were running 22+ keys under the old system, as it certainly wasn’t for gear.
yes, currently you need to do high challenge for a single weekly only loot, meaning you loose much time to increase challenge level
Okay, if healer can leave without voting
Not letting afk DPS to decide can I leave or can I not
Normally at this point in an expansion I’d be stuffing my vault from keys and trying to optimise my gear for the raid - but it’s not worth the stress in TWW.
The punishing gameplay makes for a strong likelihood of walking away with only 5 crests and mere 40% chance of an item, and it’s not fun.
Meanwhile myth vaults feel so far out of reach that I can’t see the point in trying for them. In the absence of myth vaults, I might as well do T8 delves. Which just turns me away from M+ entirely. Nothing below a 7 has value, but a 7 is unapproachably hard.
If myth vaults started at +8, and gilded crests at +7, I’d be more likely to get on the treadmill, but right now feels like a hard no.
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in 2 to 3 weeks +10s will be completed. The Gear will be much better, people will know how to play it out.
im confident it will be playable and yes some Dungeons are harder than others. because its just impossible to tune everything to the same level.
Take S1 as a lesson learned and rework it for S2 if necessary.
True.
But the difference between NW/SV to MtS/DB is too much. Too large.
I wonder why they cant use lessons learned from S1 of DF though… of S3 of DF for that matter… Why do they need to re-invent the wheel every single time ?
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Mists seems to be an impossible key. And what’s the point of taking an aug voker now, when they do 270k dps?
100% This, people used to play high keys because it was fun. Ultimately whatever you blame for the issues in this season, the mobs, the 15sec penalty, the dungeon selection, the big issue is simply it’s not fun
lol the other problem is people don’t seem to have the dps to even time keys. I did a 4 on mists, and it’s fortified, and the boss took about a month to die.
The dungeon selection is mostly OK, i think it would have been fun without Xal, 15s penalty and random OS due to bad scaling
that is because there are dps that do 1mil st dps and then you also have 400k dps players…
i also had bosses, especially nw last boss that took like 5 mins in a +4 because we had just no dmg.
people just play badly