Shadowlands: A Look at Covenant Class and Signature Abilities *Updated 5/13

[Grondash-kazzak]

Also there is a possiblity, that soulbinds will be the deciding factor for min-maxers, and not the spells like these. So atm all cryings are nothing but waste of time.

[Sylvare-argent-dawn (Sylvare)]

@Ishayoe-frostmane

That’s… just like Classic. It’s not a particularly big problem provided that those spells don’t have a massive, massive impact to the point of being an entire expansion’s worth of cooldowns and massively powerful utility.

I’m pretty sure you can just change your talents for gold at your class trainer, this won’t be a ‘oh pay a sum of gold’ amount probably, as already stated before, they are intending to design this so that you will be unlikely to swap over

[Ishayoe-frostmane (Ishayoe)]

@Sylvare-argent-dawn

I’m pretty sure you can just change your talents for gold at your class trainer, this won’t be a ‘oh pay a sum of gold’ amount probably, as already stated before, they are intending to design this so that you will be unlikely to swap over

Yeah. It costs 50 gold though if you do it enough. It’s not easy.

[Sylvare-argent-dawn (Sylvare)]

@Ishayoe-frostmane

Yeah. It costs 50 gold though if you do it enough. It’s not easy.

Yet it’s designed to be accessible, it’s not like you’ll have to cough up an epic mount, something Blizzard has explicitely stated not to be the case when designing covenants

Edit:
This arguement is a bit pointless come to think of it until we know exactly what type of hoop they expect us to jump through, but I fear it will be worse then 50g in classic

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Sylvare-argent-dawn

Not everyone’s decision on what they want will be aesthetic value, there is also value behind the performance

And that performance can come from one’s own experimentation; one’s own successes and failures. You know… Instead of ‘looking it up’.

@Sylvare-argent-dawn

Let’s say I really really enjoy pushing high m+ keys with my guildies, so much more then aesthetics, then obviously the most fun option for me is going to be whichever option is going to give me

Sorry, but I don’t get the fun in ‘looking up the ‘best’ build’ and then copying that. I really, really don’t. Isn’t the fun in the challenge of finding your own solutions to problems and challenges? Isn’t that way more fulfilling than copying someone else’s ideas?

[Ishayoe-frostmane (Ishayoe)]

I agree with the edit. It might even change over time.

We’ll see.

My main concern with this, right now, is that these spells are stupidly powerful and they will make or break your character entirely for some parts of the game. It’s just inbelievably over the top.

[Sylvare-argent-dawn (Sylvare)]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

And that performance can come from one’s own experimentation; one’s own successes and failures. You know… Instead of ‘looking it up’.

How are you supposed to experiment if you’re not supposed to swap?

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Sorry, but I don’t get the fun in ‘looking up the ‘best’ build’ and then copying that

I never said I was doing that, you just projected that image onto me without me giving any hints towards it.
That’s not how I play at all, I play more like the first way you mentioned, through experimentation
But again, how do you want me to experiment if I can’t swap around?

Edit:
I’m not saying remove covenants or abilities, I’m just saying disconnect the core class mechanic abilities from covenants. If they filled up what they removed with other covenant like abilities that’s fine, but please don’t do this to core class mechanics

[Aeula-argent-dawn (Aeula)]

Sure, eventually a group’ll get the gear they need to kill bosses.

But they’ll be miles slower and the experience will be worse than a group that actually put the effort into making sure their builds worked. +15’s will be anything but smooth as will heroic raiding if everyone is doing below average DPS because they didn’t make sure their Covenant Ability/That weird follower talent tree aren’t specced out properly.

Differences between builds are massive. A guy today who uses bad essences and bad corruptions will be 30-40k DPS behind someone who put in the bare minimum of effort.

The game shouldn’t be designed around LFR heroes. These covenant abilities being in the game or not will make 0 difference to them. None of them will rage quit because they couldn’t use their AoE judgement effect on a single target boss in LFR.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Sylvare-argent-dawn

How are you supposed to experiment if you’re not supposed to swap?

You CAN swap. It’s prohibitive, but you CAN. I personally wouldn’t. If I hit a roadblock, I’ll find a different solution than change the covenant I like.
You know… ‘thinking outside the box’.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Sylvare-argent-dawn

core class mechanic abilities

We don’t know numbers. We don’t know cooldowns.
What if they’re 1 hour cooldowns? Is it still a problem then?

They might not be ‘core’ at all. Just… ‘extras’.

[Stacie-tarren-mill]

They will pick whatever they think is the best, then when it gets nerfed feel really bad about the choice they made. They will then probably just leave the game.

why bother, just ditch these abilities all together. No one feels bad, everyone feels good they get to choose what looks the best :).

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Stacie-tarren-mill

They will pick whatever they think is the best, then when it gets nerfed feel really bad about the choice they made. They will then probably just leave the game.

Well, they’re being punished for being ‘narrowminded’. That’s good imo.
And if they leave the game over 1 skill, then sure… whatever… I wouldn’t want those kinds of players in my game anyway tbh. (if you don’t get it; I don’t think many people would leave over something so minor; you can just swap if you’re THAT fuzzed).

[Lahis-sylvanas]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

You CAN swap. It’s prohibitive, but you CAN. I personally wouldn’t. If I hit a roadblock, I’ll find a different solution than change the covenant I like.
You know… ‘thinking outside the box’.

There is no way out from the box Covenant forces on you unless you swap the Covenant. You get the ability and that’s it. Everyone else with your spec who chose the right Covenant will always be ahead if you unless you jump into their box.

[Amonet-stormrage]

Person that doesnt care about performance arguing about perfomance then calling us “narrowminded” XD , you really are too much.
And its not your game.
EDIT inb4 “you wont understand it so i wont explain it” reply

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Lahis-sylvanas

There is no way out from the box Covenant forces on you unless you swap the Covenant.

Yeah there is. Because a small, small, small % less or more performance is NOT going to matter in 95% if the content. It’s just not.

And if people get anal about that small small percentage; then that’s THEIR problem. Blacklist those people. See how they enjoy playing amongst themselves.

[Innovationn-defias-brotherhood]

This exactly. The problems mentioned above ARE TOTALY AVOIDABLE. The current direction the team has decided to go with Covenant actives is flawed to say the least. PLEASE RECONSIDER. WE HAVE SEEN MULTIPLE EXPAMPLES OF THESE KINDS OF SYSTEMS NOT WORKING IN BOTH LEGION AND BFA.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Amonet-stormrage

Person that doesnt care about performance arguing about perfomance then calling us “narrowminded” XD , you really are too much.

Yeah. You truly just don’t get any of it. This all goes over your head. This reply proves it. As does:

@Amonet-stormrage

And its not your game.

It’s called ‘imagery’, ‘metaphor’ etc. Also; that part of my response was in jest. Which I even enforced by adding the part in parentheses. But again… this is all just going over your head. And that in itself is okay, but then just don’t respond mate. Because you’re only digging yourself a bigger and bigger hole.

[Amonet-stormrage]

So “you wont get it so i wont explain it then” gotit. Further proves my point.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Amonet-stormrage

So “you wont get it so i wont explain it then” gotit. Further proves my point.

I DID explain it. You really lack comprehension mate. I’m so sorry for you.

Now… If you want me to make something crystal clear for you, then ask me a question. I will answer. In a simple manner so you can understand it. Go ahead… ask away.

[Areapia-kazzak]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Isn’t the fun in the challenge of finding your own solutions to problems and challenges? Isn’t that way more fulfilling than copying someone else’s ideas?

Sure - experimenting with different builds can be really fun. It can also not be very fun if you have to spend unnecessary amounts of time into it. Since you have clearly missed a lot of my previous points I’ll try to make this one as clear as possible:
Fun example: Hey, these talents seem really cool, I want to try them out. → Go to the nearest rested area → open talents tab → choose the cool ones → go run a mythic 0 dungeon to get a feel for it. If you end up not liking it you can go to the nearest rested area and try something different.
Not fun example: Hey, this covenant ability seems really cool, I want to try it out. → commit to a covenant → grind rep for weeks (at best) → go run a mythic 0 dungeon to get a feel for it. If you end up not liking it you can’t go to the nearest rested area and try something different.

I agree that trying things out for yourself should be part of the experience and people shouldn’t completely rely on guides and sims. Those are meant to be exactly that - a GUIDE and a SIMULATION meaning that your performance WILL BE DIFFERENT and its there to show you a detailed version of which thing does what and how X can interact with Y. From then on it should be trial and error which is why you shouldn’t have to invest so much time into the trial just to have to spend that much time trying to rectify it if it comes out an error (in regards to how your character works).

Large time investments should be dedicated to progression, not the base.