Shadowlands: You should be able to choose ALL covenants

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Barry-the-shatar

but if you are so adamant feel free to reiterate.

No thanks. I’m fine.

@Barry-the-shatar

i have seen that to be a completely and utter falsety

But does that mean that it IS?
I think previous comments would lead me to confidently believe ‘no’ is the answer to that question.

@Barry-the-shatar

you have claimed yourself you would be okay with talents being something you lock in and then are unable to remove, which is insane and would literally break the game.

You can believe that. But you have no actual facts or proof to back up that claim.
So why not just ‘let it be’. It’s likely never going to happen anyway, so why worry about it?

@Barry-the-shatar

read back through the thread,

I just told you; it’s not up to me to prove my innocence when someone makes outlandish claims. What about that sentence don’t you understand?

@Barry-the-shatar

you are consistently taking only snippets and quoting people out of content to try and prove your own points

More claims without proof. You just keep going on and on.
I’m starting to think you are a troll.

The fact that you ‘lose’ context when I do that, says more about you than me. The context is crystal clear to me and I certainly don’t ‘do that with any sort of malicious intent’. I did it with 3 quotes in a reply, as a joke. Which I clearly stated in that very reply.

@Barry-the-shatar

you are refusing to understand that you could have an opinion that is incorrect on a particular matter

No you can’t. An opinion is an opinion. It’s not wrong.
You can disagree, sure. That opinion could be based on wrong facts, sure. But the opinion itself is not wrong. Just… different than yours. Why not simply accept that? What harm does it do to just accept it and move on?

@Barry-the-shatar

would more than happily show the evidence if you hadnt gone back to the previous post and removed it all.

I didn’t remove anything. What are you accusing me of NOW?! Jeez man.
Stop this harassment. Please.

@Barry-the-shatar

but now that the context has been given to the situation you are literally just claiming something to be true which is not

No no no. That “you don’t have to do it” quote was regarding ‘heroic content’. Not what is required to do said content. Now YOU are using my quotes out of context. I thought you frowned on that?!

PS: are you done with responding to me yet? Because all of this is off topic. It’s derailing a thread about an issue I thought you cared about?

[Barry-the-shatar]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

@Barry-the-shatar

but if you are so adamant feel free to reiterate.

No thanks. I’m fine.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

@Barry-the-shatar

read back through the thread,

I just told you; it’s not up to me to prove my innocence when someone makes outlandish claims. What about that sentence don’t you understand?

okay… so its up to me to go back and prove something, but in the same vein you are refusing to go back and provide evidence.

ill say it one last time, please just stop, you cant have it both ways, stop trolling everyone, especially considering how little this topic will even affect you

@Tahra-earthen-ring

@Barry-the-shatar

i have seen that to be a completely and utter falsety

But does that mean that it IS?
I think previous comments would lead me to confidently believe ‘no’ is the answer to that question.

@Barry-the-shatar

you have claimed yourself you would be okay with talents being something you lock in and then are unable to remove, which is insane and would literally break the game.

You can believe that. But you have no actual facts or proof to back up that claim.
So why not just ‘let it be’. It’s likely never going to happen anyway, so why worry about it?

the first part here you quoted out of context of the rest of the paragraph only to then try and take the next part of it out of context again and claim that im wrong, you said earlier in the post you would be okay with locking in talents and that it would be a problem, but god forbid someone miss clicks and has to reroll their cahracter, bad system.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

No you can’t. An opinion is an opinion. It’s not wrong.

should i suggest my opinion is that 5 + 6 is 8467 you are telling me that because its my opinion and i refuse to give any actually reasoning behind my choice that i cannot possibly be wrong? or are you just delusional?

@Tahra-earthen-ring

@Barry-the-shatar

would more than happily show the evidence if you hadnt gone back to the previous post and removed it all.

I didn’t remove anything. What are you accusing me of NOW?! Jeez man.
Stop this harassment. Please.

i distinctly remember you telling me to “f off” at one point, im guessing thats because you wouldnt be able to post it with what ever you were planning on saying, i remember this clearly as well as the exact topic on conversation because a friend of mine was laughing at the absurdity of your comments at the time. someone who i was talking to one discord,

@Tahra-earthen-ring

No no no. That “you don’t have to do it” quote was regarding ‘heroic content’. Not what is required to do said content. Now YOU are using my quotes out of context. I thought you frowned on that?!

i really cannot be bothered to read back through but i know for certain that you outright said that i didnt need to optimise for heroic, because you were piggy backing off of a comment made by someone else, please dont try to revise the history of what you said to prove someone else wrong, its really not going to help anything,

and ill more than happily stop responding provided you are actually willing to admit something you said may possibly be incorrect and you stop consistantly quoting our of context to try and prove a point, im sick of having to open up the conversations your are quoting in order to actually read what was said for the context because you dont see to be reading anything yourself,

PLEASE. STOP. TROLLING.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Barry-the-shatar

but in the same vein you are refusing to go back and provide evidence.

Not ‘in the same vein’. YOU are accusing ME of things.
It’s up to YOU to provide those claims with proof. If there’s no proof; I’m innocent (spoiler: I am).

@Barry-the-shatar

ill say it one last time

I’m fairly certain you’ll do so again. But even then; it’s not appropriate here because it’s not some double standard here. It’s 2 very, very different things.

If I were making a claim towards you, yeah you’d be right to respond in the way you just did. But I didn’t do that.

@Barry-the-shatar

the first part here you quoted out of context

How is it out of context? I just don’t want to quote whole walls of text. So I take the appropriate part and respond to that. You know you can click that quote and it will show you the whole piece, don’t you? You know… for context.

@Barry-the-shatar

should i suggest my opinion is that 5 + 6 is 8467

That’s not ‘an opinion’. That’s making a statement and that statement is wrong. Statements can be wrong. Opinions cannot. You can disagree with them. You can find them distasteful (although that in itself is just an opinion). Etc.

I think you’re not completely clear on what constitutes an opinion and what does not.

@Barry-the-shatar

i distinctly remember you telling me to “f off” at one point

I really did not. ‘get lost’ is about the strongest I’ve used (I did call someone, I don’t think it was you, a horrible human being or something similar, but I changed that to troll within a minute or so after posting because I felt it was too rude).

@Barry-the-shatar

i really cannot be bothered to read back through but i know for certain that you outright said that i didnt need to optimise for heroic, because you were piggy backing off of a comment made by someone else, please dont try to revise the history of what you said to prove someone else wrong, its really not going to help anything,

I’m not and I did say that, but the quote you used was pertaining to something else. That is what I am making clear here.

@Barry-the-shatar

and ill more than happily stop responding provided you are actually willing to admit something you said may possibly be incorrect

Didn’t I already do that a few replies ago when you mentioned the ‘special circumstances’ of your heroic endeavours?

@Barry-the-shatar

and you stop consistantly quoting our of context to try and prove a point

That’s not why I do that. I like it. It’s convenient and keeps the posts shorter.
The fact that you have trouble with remembering the context is another matter entirely. Please don’t blame ME for your own shortcomings.

@Barry-the-shatar

PLEASE. STOP. TROLLING.

I’m not. Are you accusing me of something AGAIN?!
I thought we went over this already…

[Blinkrush-magtheridon (Blinkrush)]

Nah, we simply shouldn’t have power being bound to covenants.

[Barry-the-shatar]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

How is it out of context? I just don’t want to quote whole walls of text. So I take the appropriate part and respond to that. You know you can click that quote and it will show you the whole piece, don’t you? You know… for context.

considering at least 1 or 2 other people have also complained about this its not just me that has noticed you doing this, there have been plenty of times that you have just quoted a small snippet of what i was saying in order to make it seem like i was agreeing with you, or to make it seem like i was saying something different to what i was.

and before you ask i will not go back through endless reels of nonsense from you over the past day nearly in order to find each and every instance, its a waste of time and i dont want to feed the troll.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

That’s not ‘an opinion’. That’s making a statement and that statement is wrong. Statements can be wrong. Opinions cannot. You can disagree with them. You can find them distasteful (although that in itself is just an opinion). Etc.

there is plenty of my opinions i have that im claiming based on the knowledge that i have, that the majority of the playerbase will want to see things a specific way, and thats after reading endless forum threads since the alpha released and even some before that making claims and suggestions,

i have gone out of my way to read people saying its a good thing in order to try and find a way that it could possibly work and havnt found a singular idea that would work for everyone, other everyone just being given the choice and agency to do what they want. and yet multiple times when i have said this you have just attempted to shut it down by telling me that im claiming facts i couldnt possibly know. and yet even when im offering to give some kind of reasoning for my opinion im actually doing so, rather than just claiming i have already and refusing to explain myself.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

I really did not. ‘get lost’ is about the strongest I’ve used (I did call someone, I don’t think it was you, a horrible human being or something similar, but I changed that to troll within a minute or so after posting because I felt it was too rude).

well i guess me and a couple of my friends dont remember anything correctly or we are lying then, what ever, im over it, if anything the fact that you have gone back and edited it says a lot, but you say i cant prove that so i dont care anymore, forget about it.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Didn’t I already do that a few replies ago when you mentioned the ‘special circumstances’ of your heroic endeavours?

yeah except im talking about your refusing to give reasoning on other specific sections of the convesation and you out right claiming that givein players choice, doesnt infact give them choice.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

@Barry-the-shatar

PLEASE. STOP. TROLLING.

I’m not. Are you accusing me of something AGAIN?!
I thought we went over this already…

and the fact that im having to say the same things over and over if proof of you trolling, i have asked to have just a regular conversation between two adults and you are refusing, i have asked you to clarify some points you are refusing, how else am i supposed to view this? please enlighten me considering i clearly know nothing.

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

Nah, we simply shouldn’t have power being bound to covenants.

oh look a reasonable person that understands the game.

[Amonet-stormrage]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

You don’t do anything that rewards strongest gear possible.

Again; not true. Just simply not true.
You just keep looking at all of this with blinders on man.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

You can’t even imagine how I play the game.

By your own words you are doing ALL contetn just at the most accessible level, which in terms of gear means LRF raiding , normal to mythic level dungeons and normal/HC warfronts which caps you at 460 ilvl rewards. 460 ilvl is not the strongest gear, which means you really arent doing the content that rewards the strongest gear.

[Barry-the-shatar]

@Amonet-stormrage

By your own words you are doing ALL contetn just at the most accessible level, which in terms of gear means LRF raiding , normal to mythic level dungeons and normal/HC warfronts which caps you at 460 ilvl rewards. 460 ilvl is not the strongest gear, which means you really arent doing the content that rewards the strongest gear.

you better be ready to go back through all 170 messages in this thread and prove that, other wise you are just slandering this person and unwilling to provide any evidence of what has happened, at this point it might be a good idea to just give up and stop feeding the troll

[Amonet-stormrage]

Its not just this tread but if i have to i will. You see i am a great fan of Tahra, her comments have brough much… amusement my way XD.

[Blinkrush-magtheridon (Blinkrush)]

@Barry-the-shatar

oh look a reasonable person that understands the game.

It’s kinda funny how many people including Blizzard is forcing the idea of power being bound to covenant even tho it’s clearly a huge issue

[Barry-the-shatar]

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

It’s kinda funny how many people including Blizzard is forcing the idea of power being bound to covenant even tho it’s clearly a huge issue

and the fact that some idiots dont seem to realise that if they are posting saying that its perfectly fine that blizz will not see that i take it under advisement, i have suggested repeatedly that i think the best way to do things for this is to allow players the choice of the abilities they want to use and to change freely while still be locked into a covenant based on the theme,

but aparently giving players the choice of things removes their choice, even though that has yet to be explained properly it doesnt really make a lot of sense to me. no matter how many times i explain a really basic concept im just getting irgnored and i have been for the past nearly day now.

[Blinkrush-magtheridon (Blinkrush)]

That’s normal becasue your average Joe on WoW forum is a narrowminded ignorant who thinks that deflecting and making offtopic snarky comments is the best way to prove something in a discussion. They think that just becasue they have the ability to formulate sentences they automatically are knowledgeable and right about the topic.

You can use the crispiest logic filled with facts and logical conclusions and will still fly above their heads

[Amonet-stormrage]

Imagine if Blizzard had never trown in buzzwords like “meaningfull choice” and “subclasses”, would we have had people actually defending this system ?

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Barry-the-shatar

considering at least 1 or 2 other people have also complained about this its not just me that has noticed you doing this

So? I still don’t do it with some malicious intent, as you were claiming.
I explained my reasons. I’m not going to stop doing it just because you don’t like it. Sorry, not sorry.

@Barry-the-shatar

there have been plenty of times that you have just quoted a small snippet of what i was saying in order to make it seem like i was agreeing with you

That is a lie. A pure, blatant lie. And now you ARE beginning to make me angry (congratulations if you’re trolling, you got a rise out of me).
I did that in 1 post. 1. And I clearly stated THAT IT WAS A JOKE.

@Barry-the-shatar

and before you ask i will not go back through endless reels of nonsense from you over the past day nearly in order to find each and every instance, its a waste of time and i dont want to feed the troll.

THEN STOP SAYING I DO STUFF. DON'T ACCUSE ME OF THINGS WHEN YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO BACK THEM UP.

In the real world THAT IS SLANDER. And I could sue you.
Thankfully for you this is just some silly forums.

@Barry-the-shatar

and havnt found a singular idea that would work for everyone

While I appreciate the effort, that is not your job. People at Blizzard are literally getting paid to do such things. Let them do what they’re getting paid for.

@Barry-the-shatar

if anything the fact that you have gone back and edited it says a lot

THAT'S NOT A FACT. I DID NO SUCH THING. STOP ACCUSING ME OF THINGS WITHOUT PROOF.

@Barry-the-shatar

but you say i cant prove that so i dont care anymore, forget about it

Then don’t say such insulting things in the first place!

@Barry-the-shatar

yeah except im talking about your refusing to give reasoning on other specific sections of the convesation

Because AS I’VE SAID NUMEROUS TIMES ALREADY: I am done with this discussion. I don’t care. You can have it your way.
Only reason I’m here, replying, is to defend MYSELF from harassment, abuse, lies, slander and just nonsense.

I’m not getting into a discussion about covenants again. I’m not.

@Barry-the-shatar

and the fact that im having to say the same things over and over if proof of you trolling

No, it’s proof of you being stubborn and/or not able to understand the things I am saying. Stop addressing me and I’ll be out of this thread. Simple. Really, really simple.

@Barry-the-shatar

i have asked to have just a regular conversation between two adults and you are refusing

Because I think you are not capable of that. The past X number of replies you’ve given me are PROOF of that.

@Barry-the-shatar

oh look a reasonable person that understands the game.

Oh look, someone who agrees with you so that person is ALWAYS right while someone who disagrees with you is ALWAYS wrong. Funny how that works…

@Amonet-stormrage

460 ilvl is not the strongest gear, which means you really arent doing the content that rewards the strongest gear.

That is not how I interpreted Bigkeg’s claim. Context here is important.

You read that statement as: content that gives the strongest gear possible.
I read that statement as: content that rewards you for HAVING/USING the strongest gear possible.

Why did I interpret it like that? Well, it was about having a certain power level in certain content. And yeah, having a big power level helps in basically all the content I do (whether or not anyone else deems that as irrelevant).

So, yeah… There’s my explanation on that.

Wrong interpretation possibly on my part; Bigkeg will have to say how he meant it. But my cynical side is he’s going to say I was wrong anyway, just out of spite. But meh… I explained myself, that’s enough for me.

[Barry-the-shatar]

thats been one of the main issues for me with covenants, they have claimed since blizzcon last year when they announced all of this that they are aiming for more player agency,

for example giving us more choice from the weekly cache, rather than a box of disappointment we not get to choce between multiple pieces of gear depending on how much content we complete,

and then they make the main system of the expansion in spite of this and do what they can to remove player agency and refuse the ability to optimise your character,

[Blinkrush-magtheridon (Blinkrush)]

Isn’t this normal with Blizzard that they say something and then change their mind usually on worse

[Areapia-kazzak]

Same… same.

[Barry-the-shatar]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

That is a lie. A pure, blatant lie. And now you ARE beginning to make me angry (congratulations if you’re trolling, you got a rise out of me).
I did that in 1 post. 1. And I clearly stated THAT IT WAS A JOKE.

you have outright quoted a singular line of an entire paragraph is basically every response you have given to me. the amount of times i have to click the little arrow in the top right in order to gather the context of what i was saying and make sure i remember has been more than it should.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

THEN STOP SAYING I DO STUFF. DON’T ACCUSE ME OF THINGS WHEN YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO BACK THEM UP.

the fact that multiple people have also noticed it and commented on it shows a pattern and its not just unsubstantiated claims.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

While I appreciate the effort, that is not your job. People at Blizzard are literally getting paid to do such things. Let them do what they’re getting paid for.

when what they are getting paid for leads to a terrible experience within a game that i love to play i shouldnt have to sit back and be quiet about it, whats the point of them having an alpha/beta for player feedback if they are refusing to actually take the feedback and make the neccesary changes.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

No, it’s proof of you being stubborn and/or not able to understand the things I am saying. Stop addressing me and I’ll be out of this thread. Simple. Really, really simple.

okay you say that im not udnerstanding you, its impossible to find specific snippets in the now 180 replies, maybe if you actually explained it and let me read it straight up rather than refusing to explain it i might understand better, what i have literally been asking you to do for the past 2 or 3 hours now.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Oh look, someone who agrees with you so that person is ALWAYS right while someone who disagrees with you is ALWAYS wrong. Funny how that works…

someone who is willing to understand that a system is bad because of the overly negative affect it will have on a wide stretching group within the playerbase, why limit people unnecessarily when you can just give people the choice, thats all thats being asked for

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Context here is important.

interesting.

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

Isn’t this normal with Blizzard that they say something and then change their mind usually on worse

well the fact that they went out onto the stage and made the claims, and then have made other changes where they were needed made me think that they would be reasonable about it,

take moonkin for example, they were put onto the alpha and were in a terrible state, so people complained and blizz realised the issue and changes it, now they are in a much better state, if they were that reasonable about all of the issues then there wouldnt be a problem.

the fact that ion lieterally said on his interview with slootbag that if the system was a failure that they would be willing to give us the choice means a lot as well,

because over the past 3-4 months of alpha how ever long it has been, and the near 8+ months its been since blizzcon i am yet to see a single argument that would make the covenants work, outside of just harshly limiting the playerbase and causing players to feel forced into rolling multiple characters of the same class.

a friend of mine who is incredibly casual with his play was genuinaly considering having to roll a second character of the same class yesterday, just so that he didnt get screwed by the covenant abilities, its not right.

[Areapia-kazzak]

@Barry-the-shatar

in the now 180 replies

Haha, you should check the other thread with 826. " YOU WILL REGRET COVENANTS"

[Barry-the-shatar]

i think one annoying child is enough for now

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Barry-the-shatar

you have outright quoted a singular line of an entire paragraph is basically every response you have given to me. the amount of times i have to click the little arrow in the top right in order to gather the context of what i was saying and make sure i remember has been more than it should.

Again; sorry, not sorry.
It’s not my problem, but yours.
If I were doing it on purpose to confure, obfuscate or otherwise manipulate my reponses, it would’ve been another matter. But I’m not, so I don’t feel compelled in any way to change my ‘modus operandi’.

@Barry-the-shatar

the fact that multiple people have also noticed it and commented on it shows a pattern and its not just unsubstantiated claims.

Without proof: yes it is. So stop it.

@Barry-the-shatar

whats the point of them having an alpha/beta for player feedback if they are refusing to actually take the feedback and make the neccesary changes.

Agreed, but that’s not what they’re saying they are doing.
I’m choosing to believe them on their word.
I take it, you are not?

@Barry-the-shatar

what i have literally been asking you to do for the past 2 or 3 hours now.

I’ll just quote myself because you refuse to listen, I’m just going to repeat the same thing I already made very clear:

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Because AS I’VE SAID NUMEROUS TIMES ALREADY: I am done with this discussion. I don’t care. You can have it your way.
Only reason I’m here, replying, is to defend MYSELF from harassment, abuse, lies, slander and just nonsense.

I hope you get it now and drop it? Because I’m not going to give you the reply you want. You can either look for it yourself or give up or ask someone else. I’m done with that discussion.