So i think most people can agree that premade Vs pug is not much fun. I have done both, though more on the premade side.
A Lot of people quickly Jump to the conclussion Then, that premades should Then be seperated. Though what would be the exact consequences of that?
No one knows but here is my guess.
More casual players would join the pug queue, though a Lot more on the horde side than on the alliance side. Since IT certainly Seems like horde has a Lot more casual PvP players than alliance. Queue times is something like (lager pop - smaller pop)/(smaller pop) * (avg game time).
For the pugs the avg game time would certainly increase significantly. My guess is horde could expect something like 20-30 min queue on AB and wsg. Just a Guess if anyone has a Better Guess speak Up, specially if you have data to back IT Up.
A big question is how it would affect most effektive honor grinds, premades would likely get a Lot more hardcore since otherwise it is not Worth it to premade. Some rankers would likely pug a Lot.
What do you think?
I know this was a bit of a rant, but please keep it civil and understanding that changes have consequences.
So lets try and stay civil guys. Jagganath so I assume you are a ranker, could you explain your position?
You disagree with pug Vs premade not being fun?
Or you are concerned that such a change would make premade lose to much hph advantage and thus making bracket breaking easier thus make PvP ranking even Harder than it is?
It’s very hard to be civilized as you say when you aren’t.
There are so many threads like this opening every single day it’s hard to explain to everyone again and again.
WHY don’t you just post there? That’s “civil”.
I like very much that you say “No one knows the consequences of separate ques”.
You are really that arrogant and self centered to believe that no1 had ever brought this up so “nobody knows”?
Apart from this you are tottaly off having no idea about what are you talking about. But then so are others opening up 5 threads like this every day.
The best answer you’ll get here is “Go back to Retail”. So you can keep waiting for people to embrace your brilliant and unique idea. Maybe start a new thread.
I was honestly trying to be. I am new to the forum, I might not be aware of proper forum etiquette.
Why did I make a new thread?
I was aware that multiple threads regarding this topic have been made. All of those I read seems to have gotten personal and unproductive, which was why I decided to start a new thread hoping that people could have a more productive mindset. I see now that was a bit naive of me. If a productive thread exists, please link it to me.
I am actually neutral on whether this change would help the game. My personal favourite PvP is premade vs premade, pug vs pug is a bit like playing handicapped, and the least handicapped team wins. But I do not enjoy PvP playing as premade vs PUG (or shard farming as I call it). It should be said that I am not a ranker, and therefore my goal is fun and not honour. I am the GM of a guild with several rank 14, and I have huge respect for the amount of effort it requires to get there, and several more getting there (which is why I so often join premades).
Obviously, other people have brought it up, I don’t understand how you get the impression that I believe otherwise. Knowing the EXACT consequences of a change like this is close to impossible, but if you do know them please feel free to state the exact queue times for all BGs for horde and alliance, and how pug vs premade timers would be if the change was made. (Though if you honestly are able to model and predict peoples behaviour at this level, I know of several investment banks who would be interested in you)
I don’t even know how retail PvP works… Maybe I should try it?
Cute, but no: Blizzard wont listen to you because you’re wrong. How old are you, even? Between 16-22?
It’s a bit late to be starting retail PVP, because that requires gear with RNG corruption procs as well as essense grinding.
If retail gear worked the same as Classic, then retail PVP would actually be enjoyable.
That’s really hard with a topic like this, because what people want are the complete opposites of one another. I commonly post in threads of this sibject and tell people the consequences of separating queues. The results? I get braindead morons like Katuchi talking utter rubbish before I’ve even posted.
You won’t get many constructive responses on this forum regarding these sort of PVP issues. These PVP related posts are always hijacked by the same no lifers, while they spend 14 hours a day, every day, joylessly grinding away in their crap premades and months and months after the top tier PVPers ranked. The same type of people contaminate these PVP threads that have contaminated PVP ingame.
The crap premades don’t want to fight other premades because it is far easier stomping disorganized pugs to make ranking as efficient as it can be time wise. It isn’t about fun, or about fairness, or two equal teams competing on a level playing field and never was, it is about grinding ranks and nothing else.
Posts that start like this are almost never worth reading.
This is why these posts aren’t worth reading. Because they’re projections and they’re whines. They have no substance and no value, they’re merely attacks at others that play the game differently to their perfect little vision.
What your little vision doesn’t account for is that I am the most prominent of the anti-separation posters and I don’t do premades, at all. I don’t play 14 hours a day; sometimes I barely play 14 hours a week.
Time for some math, little Ettex. If you face premades in 60-90% of your games, then premades face premades just as often. Premades can’t skip other premades.
If you actually bothered to read what the OP was saying, you’d see that he/she was IN FAVOUR of premades PVP and found organised PVP much more fun than disorganised. In their own words: playing pug vs pug was like playing hanidcapped mode.
If you actually bothered to read at all, perhaps you wouldn’t be so stupid.
Me being so mad is mostly likely that I didn’t made my point clear.
There’s not the starting another thread problem here or assuming stuff or coming with “new” ideas.
No, it’s about when you or some else for that matter start a topic like this try to get some info first so we don’t run around in circles here. That’s why I am so rude and it’s not only me.
If you come with topics like “Make BGs more casual friendly” or something like that it’s another thing.
They don’t want premade vs premade because that will take away their advantage and their only chance of winning a game.
Premade vs premade will result in 30 minute intense battlegrounds or a huge stomp for 1 premade which crushes their ego. Most premades will get farmed by the fewer organised and successfull premades, making them almost feel like if they were pugging.
If premade vs. premade is supposed to be the “real” challenge, then I suppose you’re ok with removing all honor and rep gains from the “easy mode”, right? I mean, that’s what they did with skirmish arenas. It was the easy mode meant for practice, and it didn’t give you anything other than a small bag with very little gold if you won or nothing if you lost.
It’d be great to do a split like that imo. Would probably work great.
It’d also solve the problems like AFKing in BGs to leech honor since you can’t really AFK in premades or you’d risk getting blacklisted, and it’d prevent earning anything when botting for inhumanly amounts of honor, and it’d also proactively discourage doing premade exploits for it.
Great, right? I’m all for that kind of split.
You’re also ok with that right? Since, I mean, you’re doing it for the “fun” of it, not for the reputation rewards, right? And you’d surely get to have lots of fun in BGs where only solo players with no reason to cheat the system would be queuing constantly.
Because if you’re only whining for the sake of an easier time to acquire rep rewards, then that turns the narrative into greedy little crybabies wanting their bottles but not getting it. There’s nothing “noble” in wanting a split of queues to turn into the LFR-equivalent in Classic where you get “free epics”. Especially not with all of the problems it’d bring, if it’d have any sort of rewards for it.
Since ranking is competitive, yes it’s a bigger challenge. The real challenge is enjoying it.
Afk botters increase the chance a premade wins against pugs so what exactly is your point and how is this relevant?
Who’s whining? The only whiners are premades who would never want this to happen. What’s noble in slaughtering enemy players and how is nobility relevant to this topic?
One fact is explicit. If full raid premades would be seperated from full raid pugs, there’d be alot more butthurt than there’s right now.
That’s a nice thread because it’s a “what if”.
I don’t think premades should be separated. One can argue that ranking isn’t fun anyway. But it’s hard. To make it harder is inhuman. And to punish for grouping in an MMO is weird.
You even quoted the post yourself. Try reading it too. It’s self-explanatory.
Or do you need the details literally spelled out for you?
The AFK problem becomes a non-issue when the only way to earn anything from BGs is by queuing as a full premade, should such a split become a thing with no rep nor honor for solo queuing.
The premades can then police themselves, and blacklist anyone who still tries to leech honor on their own. No need to be forcibly matched with them and no way to (properly) kick them like the way it is now. The bots would also become a non-issue, when the bots can’t earn anything from solo queuing and there’s no way in hell they’d be invited to premades.
As for the rest of what you said, that doesn’t even make any sense. Read more. Write less. You suck at it.