If u take classic PvP seriously, there is something wrong with u, for sure
Thanks for your valuable input too.
At least Horde doesn’t have any exploits to abuse unlike the Alliance so we require skill and coordination to win… 
Because leading AV games are degenerating your brain process. Pugs dont understand how to counter act the cave position advantages .
Forgot to mention that too
Played two games today, waited an hour in queue for each, lost in 15mins both matches to russians. Maybe you can learn something from them.
oh comon… the russian games are like the old ally premades… blizz should put out them from the europe battle group
Ye. Maybe give them their own realm to play on. That’d be a great solution
You played with and against people of your own server. There’re not that many AVers on a given server, and guess you had “good” Alliance and/or “bad” Horde.
Now you’re playing with and against randoms with different queue times and different attitude towards the BG.
It is not the answer to “why Alliance never wins now”. But I think it is the answer to “why I used to win 15 years ago and now lose”.
Well I’m a vanilla player and NO, I don’t remember alliance to outwin hordes on AV anyway.
Horde learnt to turtle easy by the age, maybe your server had retarded hordes, but on mines (Defias Bro, Darkspear) horde dominated it pretty easy the way they do now: using map advantages.
As for now, the lastest tactics used may work or may not, most often not.
- wiping the horde at SH and then engaging them to cap IB <-- works or not, delayes the fight at IB in the chokepoint
- wipe them 3 times and wait for SF to be capped by them then assault IB <-- very same as above
- skip them and engage IB while losing SH <-- may work or not, depends by the raid coordination, leadership, classes, equip.
Only the last one may work and becomes a live or lose. Hordes after tappin SH will retreat back en masse and so you will have both hordes respawning from the cave and the ones coming from behind to be fought against.
If all the condictions above (leadership equip etc) are OK, alliance MAY survive and cap the IB thus going further.
Meanwhile gotta handle the hordes that skipped SH and went to assault the bunkers from glitch side, hande the eventual roaming elites on the IB path and so on.
If horde retakes IB and also taps SH altogheter, it’s a LOSS.
The map plays horde side 110% so unless they all get some serious mental disease, the game is done.
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Well yes and no. Even at the xrealm BG patch things didn’t really change in terms of won/loss ratio.
Did any1 mention the back door that allows horde to get to Alliance base skipping bridge?
I always wonder about this. I’ve never used it, nor have I seen it used. I’m not saying it’s not there - but if is there why don’t all 40 players use it every time?
Backdoor easily countered by players recalling and killing them, just like horde sometimes do when alliance jump over the wall and pass the tower before the 2nd wall with cap-able towers. Alliance also have the advantage of being able to melee horde players and npcs through the walls of the tower without being able to take any dmg themselves. Alliance can also kite Galv unlike horde since Balinda is a caster and apparently there are fewer guards with Drek’Thar since Alliance can pull him right away without taking a single tower. Suddenly the base race is won by Alliance because they don’t need to take a single objective like Horde has to.
In fact, it was not like this until really late Vanilla.
Objectives were important to the point that even assaulting the opposite base without having all the towers down was mass suicide and anyway you could barely pass through if not a gorup of stealths.
Those were the AVs that could last half a day though and while I enjoyed it a lot, since they gave a real war-like feeling, I can easily imagine today’s community losing their minds over it. Anyway BGs were handled relaly poorly in classic.
That’s exactly the AV’s I was hoping for. Unfortunately we got the worst possible version 
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The cave was in the back for most of classic. Nice try but your argument just worked against you. They moved it towards the end because horde were complaining about losing all the time. The player base is reversed now, but the map is still in its horde favored version.
This is just plain false… What you are saying is not true. The cave was never moved in any Vanilla patch. It was moved in patch 2.4 in TBC.
Why on earth would you even believe such nonsense to begin with?
Probably but depends is you kill more Alliance than Alliance kills Horde. If Alliance kills more the gy will be saturated after a while and you will have 30-40 Alliance attacking and 10 horde defending.
That means that Horde always has the better team so map is insignificant.
if the defensive team can’t wipe the attacking team next to a graveyard then only way to win is if attacking team plays the bg wrong.