I just watched a youtube video… explaining why ally dont win AV… if u run with a no epic mount from start place from horde you will reach the middle of map before ally with epic mount… also the graveyards are in favor to horde, when ally die we must run like halv the earth… horde? … so why dont blizz do somehting with this? horde have like 99% win rate on av battleground…
Do not worry there will be new one coming in TBC where both have same distance from starting cave to other last boss, btw the best tactic on it is that nobody fights and everyone just rushes to last boss and kills it
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3 reasons.
- It’s a recreation and no one is exploiting the map in an unintended way. You don’t make changes in the name of balance in a recreation. You only hotfix exploits if needed.
- The map is not the main reason. It’s the queue and reward system that is the main reason where it’s more rewarding for the faction with a short queue to lose fast compared to win slow on a map that is designed for slow games.
- The map is not unbalanced if you take the whole battle into consideration. Try to play a premade vs premade with the main objective to win and you will see that. Horde have the advantage at the first half and Alliance the advantage in the last half of the battle. Unfortunately the current queue and reward system doesn’t reward winning enough so it’s more rewarding not to win for the faction with a short queue unless you can win fast, and you can’t if any side defends. This means that Alliance don’t get to see the last half of the battle when they have the advantage. So it makes sense that many people have this belief in Classic.
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People on my realm got banned for afking in Alliance AV this week.
Two of which were ranking.
Needless to say, they raged on the server discord due to it xD.
There’s so many of these guys in AV, they go for maximum honor per hour instead of actually winning.
It’s the flaw with the PvP system in classic/vanilla if anything.
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Alliance, no sorry it’s not an Alliance thing per se, the faction with the short queue, does this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/614081264751738920/757619011591733318/unknown.png
They do this and similar afk things all the time. Not because they CAN’T win, but because it’s not worth it to fight for a slow win compared to wait at Hill of Shame (that’s what Horde calls it, it happens a lot) or just try and get some elits while waiting for a quick efficient loss. And then you factor in all kind of thing into this, map design is ONE of the factors, and you end up with 100% loss rating for one faction.
This is a good thing in an extremely bad and broken situation. We can’t change the map but we can change the queue system and reward system that is not authentic and is more or less being exploited in an unintended way.
The AV we have in Classic is BY FAR the worst AV I have ever played, and I have tried many patch versions on many different servers. And that is coming from me as a Horde. The whole Alliance faction is stuck in a catch 22 where they can’t do anything about it. Only Blizzard can solve this. They need to make a more authentic queue system and fix the broken reward system in AV. And personal opinion, they should use a more fun older version. Give Alliance something to fight for so that it’s not more rewarding to lose fast on purpose compared to fighting to win. This is not a “you think you do but you don’t” thing, the queue is not authentic. There never was a huge mega mono battlegroup cross realm in Vanilla.
@Blizzard, can you talk to the damn community about this? You did this. This the patch version you choose and the queue system you choose. No one asked for this and it’s not authentic and the result i unacceptable. For both factions.
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Yes, but in classic’s case, it’s the alliance faction with the short queue.
It’s kinda what happens, when people always maximize honor per hour.
Blizzard can easily reward the honor for people actually winning instead of just killing the NPCs.
That way, people would actually be motivated to win as opposed to just killing the mobs and afking.
I guess they want to keep the map authentic.
But that is not a good enough reason anymore. Hopefully they will do something about it like they did with lotus spawns.
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The lotus spawns was being exploited in an unintended way, right? Is the AV map being exploited in any way or being used in any unintended way?
Having the original AV would be something the majority wanted. Personally I saw a vid with the pre release AV with two entrances to IB (one west and one east) which is of course would have been balanced since SH suffers from that. But they removed so many NPCs in 1.8 that starting point mattered so much more and with the current faction imbalance it enhances the problem.
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Stop spreading your fake news all over these forums. As pointed out in another of your posts, this is where Ali regroup in order to have a better chance of sticking together and moving down South. These are not afk’ing.
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They are inactive and that’s specifically against the EULA.
And dude, common. We see the AFK Alliance all the time. And when we say afk we mean inactive, as in waiting to lose when it’s not worth to be active and even try to win.
How you can defend this behaviors is beyond me. They are LITERALLY letting horde win so that they can maximize the Honor by not winning. And that’s my whole point. That’s the reason Alliance lose 100% if all pugs. Not the map. It’s the queue and reward system.
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You don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve been in 100’s of AV matches and this happens in 90% of matches. It’s a tactic to regroup so that we can get past Stonehearth when the Horde have capped it… BECAUSE THAT’S THE No1 CHOKE POINT AREA and we can’t run past solo, we need to go as a group. Ever heard of battle tactics?
I’m not saying that people don’t afk… of course people do. But with your screenshot and with you saying “look at all these afk’ers” …it’s just not on, so stop spreading bull that you don’t even understand.
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What would happen if you guys defended instead of letting horde win? Defended for 1h-2h? What would happen?
This quote is EPIC and don’t you see how it’s the reason for everything? You are in fact claiming that in 90% of all AV the majority of all Alliance choose to inactive and letting horde win so they can grab some extra honor before losing fast. Can’t you see how that is the reason you loose 90%+ of all games?
So, what do you think would happen if you don’t literally let Horde win 90% of all games?
I know, you would get less honor and rank slower, so Alliance will not do it, due to the reward system.
It wouldn’t last two hours. Again, you don’t understand what you’re talking about.
Alliance get pushed back to their starting cave. Horde easily takes both our GY’s at the North. All they need to do now is run 20 feet to the General to kill it for a win, whereas Alli have to run 500 feet out of our starting cave, through our own choke point at Stormpike GY which Horde use against us, over a bridge, battle through the horde yet again at Dun Baldar GY just to attempt to defend our General.
Dude, I have played emulated Vanilla since 2015. AV was my end game. I played AV for years as horde and alliance on various servers and patches. I don’t know much, but I do know a lot about AV.
This extreme situation is unique for Classic, WITH THE SAME MAP. So how can it be the map? Stop blaming the map. It’s not the map.
It’s first and foremost the queue, the long queue motivates Horde and makes Alliance passive. The reward system then breaks the whole system where it’s more rewarding for the faction with a short queue to lose fast and more rewarding for the faction with a long queue to win or lose slow, on a map that is designed for long slow games.
Then you also factor in the fact that most good and motivated alliance play WSG/AB while a horde can rank in AV really well, so you have even more motivated rankers on horde in AV and very few on Alliance. And winning is not the main objective, getting rank and honor is. So it’s not worth to even try to win after 30min.
If the main objective was to WIN, alliance would never let Horde pass while they waited on that hill. But their main objective is not to win, it’s to get as much honor as possible. The reward system makes winning a losing strategy. It’s more rewarding not to win when you have short queue and the other faction defends.
It’s not the map. It’s the same map. It’s not the map.
And, even if it was the map, the map can’t be changed, it’s a recreation.
The reward and queue system can be changed. Focus on the things that matters and actually can be fixed.
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it’s wearisome reading every AV thread and seeing bodiesan pushing the same tired logic. you’re not paying attention and you’ve convinced yourself that your theory is the only reason horde win.
alliance aren’t going into AV and deciding at the start “right boys, shall we win slow or lose fast?” because that would suggest we choose the outcome so do you honestly think horde are winning this much because we’re letting them win by throwing the game? of course not.
i have said it before, alliance can and do win but what you’re not understanding is that given the difficulties the map creates for alliance, once we lose SHGY we know we are then in a virtually unwinnable situation and then we need to start talking about getting as much honour before we lose. queue time doesn’t come into it because the game would still play out the same way even if we’d waited for an hour to get in. this losing stategy you think we’ve come up with to maximise our honor is wrong and it only becomes an exercise in damage limitation once horde inevitably capture SHGY and push us back.
you seem to think that our horrendous win rate is our choice but i play alliance and i’m in those BG’s and i can assure you that if the option was to win or lose we’d be taking the win.
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Explain to me, why is it that horde wins the first pvp encounter 90% of the time.
Thats the reason they manage to CAP sh early game. This have nothing todo with the map layout.
According to the video posted in av threads and my own experience the first clash happens arround balinda.
Map layout, chokes etc have not come into play yet because the first fight is not taking place there.
Alliance even have a shorter path getting reinforcements at that point.
Dude, I have seen many AV where Alliance did not lose SH GY for over 30min and then suddenly more or less vanished and lost.
I have seen many AV where Alliance didnt lose SH GY and capped IB GY and then after 35min Horde got IB back and took SH and won while Alliance waited on the Hill.
I have been in AV where Alliance took SF ans IB GY snd started to push south, but let Hord pass and win. They didnt even try to defend.
I have NEVER seen Horde talk about losing. Not once in 250 AV have I ever seen Horde talk about losing. Not even against premades while stalling for over 1h knowing we was going to lose. Over and over for weeks and weeks. Gatting crushed by premades. Not once did we ever lose on purpose while gabbing some honor. And you say that Alliance does that every game. Think about that.
We have 100% loss rate for alliance pugs right now. It’s ABSURD to blame the map. It’s the same map.
Its not map balqnce that makes one side lose 100% suddenly.
Its the queue and reward system on a slow map that is designed for slow games when the faction with a short queue get most reward from losing fast.
Its more rewarding to lose fast compared to winning slow. That’s how you get 100% loss rate on a slow map.
What makes your comments so absurd when you blame the map is that Horde used to lose 80% of all games in AV, with the same god damn map. The map didn’t change. So what changed?
It’s the queue system that changed. And the reward system is the main cause of this situation.
EVEN IF IT WAS THE MAP, the map is an authentic recreation and can’t be changed.
Focus on the things that matter and can be tweaked. The queue and reward system. The map cannot be changed. It’s not the map. Stop talking about the map.
Probably because the GY got capped and we were forced back to another GY to respawn… that’s how it works 
Yeh, regrouping so we can have another shot at taking IB or storming South.
Maybe because they win 99% of the time?
How do you have a 100% loss rate against pugs when you win 99% of the time in AV?
Great advice which you should take yourself. So press the Log Out button at the top right of the screen, please.
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I’m glad I’m not the only one who see’s it! 
I know I should stop replying to him… but he’s just so annoying 
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