So I did the Vulpera intro on PTR... Spoilers, obviously

They can throw their limbs at people at dangerous velocities!

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They are relentless, disciplined, patient, can carmourflage themselfs as corpses laying around, do not eat or drink. Those are strengths that shouldn’t be underestemated.

So, what you’re saying is recruit vultures to try and bait them, got it.

Vulpera are small and un-intimidating, yet have sharp fangs and fighting spirits. Also, not to be underestimated, see my point?

This is like elementary school level of failure admittance. I am done with this.

Arthas. Genocided all of Quel’thalas.
Garithos. Tried to kill the survivors while the Kirin Tor just watched and didn’t do anything about it.
Jaina. Purge of Dalaran.

Whatever the old Horde did, pales in comparison to the damage the humans dealt to the thalassian elves.

Having an honest enemy is one thing. Having an supposedly ally/friend that backstabs you at every chance possible is another. I applaud Anasterian and Kael for realizing how hollow and pointless the friendship with humans ultimatley was.

A good reason to join the faction with the Lordaeronians!

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Last time I checked Calia and living Lordaeron people are still part of the Alliance. Don’t know who you’re referring to here.

Ah, yes, random distinctions are nice, aren’t they? All humans are to blame for the deeds of Arthas and Garithos…except of the ones that died along the way, even if they might have personally participated. Partisanship is fun!

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Probably the undead who were actually the ones who razed Quel’thalas to the ground in the first place. I mean, Forsaken are the remnants of the army of Arthas.

Stormwind humans were actually the ones that saved Quel’thalas from the Horde if Warcraft 2 is still canon and Sylvanas eliminated most of the living Lordaeronians in Vanilla, Wotlk, Cataclysm and Before the Storm.

Partisan and parmesan, some of our greatest hits.
Partisan and parmesan, are best when ground to bits. ♪

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Elves have a pretty selective memory. They blame humans for being responsible for everything bad that happened to them from the Second War onwards (about the only thing where they have a point is with Garithos), yet they ally with the orcs that burned down their forests in the first place, their ancient enemies the trolls and the undead that destroyed their forests the second time. They also blame the humans for their intolerance, yet were also the ones who wanted the orcs eliminated after the second war.

I guess the elves are simultaneously very forgiving and very vindictive. Very complex and nuanced people. Just like Jaina.

The Scourge were just mindcontrolled minions back then. It was Arthas calling all the shots.

It isn’t. We got chronicles and some novels instead.

So what? We’re talking about judging peoples here, not individuals. If stormwindians are guilty of Garithos’ crimes, why aren’t mind-controlled minions guilty of their master’s crimes? Collective guilt doesn’t care about personal culpability.

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Yeah, thought so. Kinda miss that honestly, it felt nice, playing the Nation of Azeroth in WC2 and getting revenge for Stormwind’s destruction.

Still, they were an isolated kingdom that was being rebuilt on the other side of the world. I doubt they can be blamed for anything that happened during WC3, unless Varian being friends with Arthas when they were kids means he is responsible for everything he did. And in that case, you might as well say it was the fault of Kael’thas.

Arthas was mind controlled by having his soul stolen by the Frostmourne.

Also, Arthas did far more damage to Lordaeron than he ever did to Quel’thalas. Quel’thalas still exists, for one.

And if you are blaming the actions of Arthas on all the humans, then I guess the Orcs did the most damage to the elves, because the actual Lich King Ner’zhul was an orc and thus it was all his fault.

If you knew, you would understand the meaning of battle.

At the brink of extinction, the chieftain Cairne Bloodhoof, desperate for help, turned to the strange green-skinned warriors from over the sea. Cairne quickly befriended Warchief Thrall and the other orcs, and recognized that they shared a love for honor and battle.

Take care and stop finding sources that you only agree with.

Dragging the thread kicking and screaming back on topic: Vulpera do fit the Horde perfectly, and they certainly are not Weak, Heck the very first quest with them shows that! Nisha is kicking bottom and taking names,and the hate in her voice for the Sethrak is definitely not a pacifist. Chipper Vulpera are more rare, they don’t all sing to their Llamas. Kiro sounds like a sensible one, and not afraid to get his hands dirty (Probably their racial leader) and they have survived in a hostile environment where everything wants to enslave you or eat you, a hostile environment where Zandalari political prisoners are sent to -die-. Are Zandalari Weaker than Vulpera then?

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Oh, so you can quote sources! I’m impressed! Now if you would mention where you got it, that would actually make it useful in any way. But why would you want to start actually having a constructive discussion now, when you were just having fun mouthing your superiority…

And you would think that accusing me of just looking for sources that agree with me might have made you ponder a bit yourself…

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Its not a source. He quoted a Wowpedia sentence. An un-sourced one too…

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