So no buffs for holy priests

Classes Priest
43

GS prevents you from dying. What does that mean if I am still one shot? I died twice right. The damage is >2x my hp. Its mathematically impossible to survive. Have I tried greater fade… what a joke. Have you ever pugged arena? People run off into the distance and you are on your own. Even with world pvp, the likes of a SP just needs to stun and finish up. Many other classes can do it too.

Don’t think I have forgotten the flash heal thread, were you think holy priests should heal around flash heal. Think many spells are not to be used. That other poeple dont know what they are talking about if they use all holy priest spells. Or advise so.

44

I don’t know why I take the effort to respond but here we go…

In pvp there is no ability that will do 90k or even 60k for that matter, what happens is that you get stunned and for some reason don’t have trinket up or popped defensives before hand, then 1 or 2 dps use cool downs which you for some reason did not anticipate and get you to 0% while you have GS up, GS will heal you to 40% and then they immediatly shave that 40% off.

So how does one prevent this? You can pop defensives when you suspect your opponent is setting up burst (battlemaster trinket, desperate prayer, greater fade etc), you can position so both opponent can not sync burst on you, your ally can cc/dispell/interrupt etc to interrupt the enemy burst, you can pvp trinket and pop a defensive after they use their burst, your ally can use externals to defend you against the burst, your ally can offheal to protect you.

If you find yourself in a situation where you can not defend against an enemy kill set up then you misplayed to get yourself into that situation.
Yes some match ups are hard, some classes/comps are easier to play than others, gear definitely can give people an edge (did you try using versatility in pvp?).
But whenever you lose a game, especially at sub 2.3k rating there is always something you could have done to play better. I have yet to play an arena game where I felt that either my or my partner’s understanding of mechanics or strategic or tactical decisions did not cause us to lose that game. And I lost quite a lot of games.

Basically what I am trying to say is: If you play better than your opponents you can win almost any game, it is a very unhealthy attitude to blame your loses on factors you can not control and it is incredibly unlikely that those factors caused you to lose. They may contribute but they can definitely be overcome.

Maybe you should go and take a look at what high rated holy players do that you could try to emulate?

45

On a side note about your flash heal comments: you misunderstood what was being said because those comments were specifically about m+ where flash heal (combined with heal when running the flash concentration legendary) are your main filler spells because most healing revolves around spot healing in m+.

I don’t think, and I never said, that other abilities don’t have a niche, using PoH in raid is completely fine depending on your legendary and the situation you find yourself in. Even renew and power word shield have a niche in both M+ and raid, that niche is not very often and they are very weak spells but there is a reason I have 45 keybinds on my holy priest.

46

You just got told they can one shot you with defensives up. GS damage hits, Full health Prayer of mending, renew, shield and dead within GCD. I dont even get the chance to cast Holy Word: Serenity.

I have even been one shot with ray of hope up. I just die after a few seconds. Even casting 2 x serenity and then GS. Sanctify, Desperate prayer, Circle of healing. Nothing stops it happening. Hide behind something and they follow you and stun. Then one shot you.

If you out gear them and they are newbies then you wreak the world. But geared players with a clue. No chance. Its up to the team to save you. More often than not they are running after one player. While the other team chase you down stun you and kill you within that stun. Tinket out the stun, then they stun you again. Then dps you down.

Anyone not doing this is a fool.

47

If you do not read what people tell you then why do you even respond to them?

1 Like
48

Statistically most healing in mythic+ is AoE not single target. From my own logs for mythic+. Prayer of healing is most used spell. So trying to buff single target, will reduce AoE. This leads to an overall reduction in hps. Simed results, with hardest mythic+ affixes. Many DoT the whole group after a kill and your mass dispell can be on cooldown. You have to dispell yourself and AoE heal the group. You can get 6-8 stackings all ticking away on each player. You are going to flash heal. Many damage patterns hit everyone but you are going to flash heal.

This will be my last reply to you. Others have a right to post. I know full rightly why you are hijacking this thread. You should bother with all spells, holy priest has. Note my builds are not based on AMR. I do use it, but thats all. Mostly in the last few expansions I have been get 100 percentile for ilvl or close for gear. Thats every build once completed.

Take my logs of mythic+

Top spell in order of most healing in logs for one encounter.
Prayer of healing 12 casts 538hps
echo of light 528.4 hps
prayer of mending 10 casts 393.7
renew 9 297.1hps
circle of healing 8 283.3 hps
heal 9 277.1 hps
holy word sanctify 4 241.0 hps
holy word serenity 2 156.6 hps
flash heal 4 117.5 hps the spell you are buffing and using.
cosmic ripple
holy nova 9 67.5 hps
power word shield 1 17.4 hps

HPS peak 9,918.4 hps overheal 26.43% ilvl 201

For the whole log, flash heal did 2.24% of the healing. Mastery echo of light did 17.93%. Renew 12.12%. Prayer of mending 10.10%. Circle of Healing 9.95%. Prayer of healing 9.05%. Overheal 30.60%.

From logs mastery is the main stat for good healing. The healing from mastery costs no more mana. AoE healing is the main focus. With single target less so. This is not to say you get a tank were spaming everything including flash heal until oom is all you can do. All you will do at most is increase hps a little bit using that legendary 50 hps (my gear) but you will get more hps by changing talents to support flash heal (100hps). In ask mr robot. This will increase the sim from 4450hps (my build) to 4550hps (your build) but in the mythic+ I will be doing 5000-6000hps if need single target on the tank (see all the holy word CD’s, renew, shield and GS etc). If things go really bad 6000-8500hps average AoE if needed (players are in good positions). Most of the time its 3000-4500hps maybe 5000hps. Its the combination of spells on one target that drives high hps, thus focusing on one spell and ignoring others reduces maximum hps.

I cant do any more posts, I am getting warnings.

49

We all knew where this path would lead us and I went down this path hoping it wouldn’t but whatever…
Please give us the statistics that prove the two assertions you just made:

  1. “most healing in mythic+ is AoE not single target”
  2. “trying to buff single target … leads to an overall reduction in hps … you gain 50hps on single target but lose ~300hps in AoE”

Getting corrected when you post incorrect information is something you’ll have to live with when you post on a public forum.

I don’t know why you think there is some grand conspiracy against you, I dislike you and I think you have obvious issues but there is no grand plan or organised campaign against you.

I even think that mechanically you are not a bad player in raids, your fundamentals when it comes to using cooldowns (CoH, PoM etc) are better than the average holy priest and even when you say that mastery is a good stat for raiding you aren’t wrong…
Your interpetation of AMR sims or data in general is not very good though and that negatively impacts the quality of your advise when it comes to (stat) advise you give to other players (AMR is a blackbox so it impossible to even analyze any of their data properly).

50

If you edit your comments all the time it makes the thread chain look weird :stuck_out_tongue:

  1. Your sims are meaningless to me because they are not available for public review if they exist at all.
  2. Just because YOU use PoH a lot in m+ does not mean that you are playing it correctly, you don’t even have any experience in high m+ keys
  3. Right now we have a very specific mechanic in m+ (bursting) that (when mismanaged) can mandate more aoe healing, however that is one week and even then the power of ToL+5 stacks of FC Heal is obvious and very flexible.
  4. Take a look at public high m+ key logs and just look at what holy priests are using and how often they use PoH, it won’t be a lot.
  5. The fact that you hit 100% ilvl logs in LFR raid content when selectively uploading logs does not prove anything and I still don’t understand what you even think I disagree with you on when it comes to raiding.
  6. Mandatory brag on how my logs are much better than yours anyhow :grin: Healing parses are a big meme anyway…
  7. It would be nice if you responded in a constructive way to things other people write, you seem to ignore any argument that people make that does not fit your perspective on reality.
51

Because you edited your post again and obviously did not bother to read my response I’ll just repost a bit of it;

  1. Just because YOU use PoH a lot in m+ does not mean that you are playing it correctly, you don’t even have any experience in high m+ keys

“Take my logs of mythic+”
Did you only cast 12 PoHs in your m+ logs? That seems like a rather low number even for 1 dungeon, heck in the stats you just linked I count only 67 spells total…
I cast about 1000ish spells in an average key…
HPS peak is entirely meaningless, when I crit for 30k with a serenity in one second my peak is 30k hps…
Ironically enough even in the numbers you yourself posted you used one more flash heal/heal than PoH and you don’t even run ToL or FC :grin:

Also instead of editing your one post over and over it might be better to just post new responses.

52

Holy Priest’s niche in Blizzard’s eyes is to be strictly worse for high-end content than the other healers. It’s still doable, but not optimal. This is not a secret, and people made no secret of it when you first started posting here, OP. If this kind of stuff upsets you, and I say this genuinely without a hint of douchebaggery, you should reroll, and right quick. It’s not about to change. Our most recent chance passed when Shadowlands launched without fundamental kit changes. Next chance is likely not until next expansion launch.

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53

You clearly don’t value flash heal so your logs/spell usage wouldnt favour it, you seem to be someone who wants to avoid using it for your own reasons.

Can you explain how you are deciding the value of other stats?

You are aware that your other stats buff you healing from mastery in their own way while also providing their own benefit.

Crit - bigger heals when crit, the mastery that will proc will be bigger. Also increases damage.

Versa - all heals buffed, echo will increase. Also increases damage.

Haste - more heals over the course of a fight as you cast them slightly faster that will feed into you mastery. Also increases damage. Doesn’t hasten the ticks of mastery. Reduces GCD also buffs renew but renew is a special child.

Mastery - only increases echo. No affect on damage or your healing spells spells.

Yes mastery is a big part of you healing but your mastery stat is not the only thing buffing it as the spells you are proccing echo from are buffed by your other stats and echo is % of the heal.

And I am mentioning damage again because you really should be pumping out damage when you have the chance in M+, raid or pvp.

1 Like
54

Echo of light is the number one healing source. Thus mastery is a strong stat. Other stats can help mastery (crit and vers) but mastery is likely the strongest stat.

This is in agreement with ask mr robot. Go gear check and then the graph. For mythic+ graph shows all mastery.

Was going to do the mathematics but the post was impenetrable. You can get all the maths you need from ask mr robot. They have it on their website. With this you can see the output of each spell, its cost and how mastery helps you save mana and increases hps.

55

Aellas, please stop spreading misinformation based on your LFR and low key logs.

Every holy priest and every holy priest guide just screams that mastery is our worst stat for M+ dungeons.

If you want to cast every spell you have, pump prayer of healing, run the divine image legendary, and stack mastery thats fine. But the fact is that its not the way to go. You need haste crit vers more in higher m+ keys.

Lets just stop replying to this guy, and let him live in his bubble. He does not take any advice at all.

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56

I suggest we just all put this major drugaddicted troll on ignore. He is devaluing the forums with his constant streams of misinformatiom and got banned from the priest discord for doing the exact same thing

57

Mastery is the strongest stat for mythic+. This is an observation from logs and a sim’ed result. I can refer to that as a proven fact if you like.

Basically my final build at 214 ilvl I pass your mythic+ hps with zero haste. I would hit 5015hps (run once), were your gear hits in mythic+ 4,965 hps (run multiple times for best result). This is my built with divine image, yes its better in my build. Harmonious Apparatus is the better choice by the sim. This is for both mythic+ and raid. Would be better from what I know from logs.

Also in raids my final gear build sims 7865hps (Kleia and not even my raid gear. Which will have Harmonious Apparatus) and yours sims 7,265 HPS (with raid talents).

This makes your gear ilvl for ilvl worse than what my build would be for the same ilvl. Thus Flash Concentration does not lead to higher hps. In fact my current build increase to your ilvl by picking the same stats on higher ilvl gear. Would overperform your gear in every way. This is without the real legendary I want, Harmonious Apparatus (Harmonious Apparatus output raid 8,048 HPS, mythic+ 5,036 HPS ilvl 214 zero haste, mastery focus).

58

I was banned form this forum for that kind of post. Lets see if the mod is consistent.

59

OK so you are saying m+ dungeons and raid bosses are always gunna match your sims (ignoring the rest of the trash you are saing).

60

Sims show you how one set of gear performs compared to another. Simc does not simulate any raid bosses. The boss in simc is the training dummy. A patchwerk like boss.

Basically intelligence sets your healing as a primary stat. You want as much as posible.

Haste can increase healing by reducing cast time but only so much. You still pay in mana for that increase in healing.

Mastery can really increase healing, 50% mastery is a 50% increase in healing as a HoT for every target healed. You can increase echo of light more with vers and crit. The stats have a synergy together. The extra healing is mana free.

Overhealing reduces the healing from echo of light but that overheal costs no mana. So in your logs you always want echo of light to be first for overhealing.

This way mastery, crit, vers and intellect. Are the most important stats for a holy priest.

With healing you want echo of light to be first. You build the HoT on as many players as posible. This way you can create high hps but control mana usage. The more AoE and single target spells you cast on a target the more echo of light builds. At some point you stop healing and let the HoT finish healing the targets.

This is the same with single target heals. Each single target heal increases echo of lights ticking value and uptime. In fact you drop as many CD’s as possible on the target. Every 3 seconds ehco of light will tick. At some point echo of light will build and tick at 3000 hps. Add 50% to heal of GS and you can see holy has burst hps but relies on CD’s. If you stop healing ech of light will drop off very quickly.

So with you spam to build the HoT, then stop to reduce the overheal. Every spell counts for echo of light.

Thus mastery is the most important holy priest secondary stat.

61

So mastery is the best stat for mythic plus?

62

Both raid and mythic+ the top healing source for me is Echo of Light. Echo of light is affected by both crit and vers.

Intellect is basically spellpower.
Spell Power = (Round(StatRating(SpellPower), 0) + TotalIntellect

So for flash heal = 2.03 * [TotalSpellPower] * [TotalHealingMultiplier]

So were does vers come in?
TotalHealingMultiplier = StatMultiplier(HealingMultiplier) * TotalHealingTakenMultiplier * (1 + TotalVersatility)

Total multiplier on healing that you receive. Not that common, but a few tank/healer buffs use it.
Healing Taken Multiplier = StatMultiplier(HealingTakenMultiplier)
Healing Multiplier = 0.05 for holy priest

So vers is a buff to your healing multiplier and increases the amount you heal for each cast by the same amount.

Critical Strike
Total Critical Strike from all sources (gear, buffs, multipliers, temporary procs, etc.) This is your chance to score a critical strike.
All current Critical Strike bonuses are additive.

Crit Healing Multiplier
Total multiplier on critical strike healing. In most cases this multiplier gets applied to the final crit heal (which is 2x normal heal).

So we can see that vers gives a flat buff to healing. Critical strikes whan they happen cause 2x the healing to take place. Both can work together, with mastery.

So vers increase the base heal, then your Crit Healing Multiplier doubles that. The result is taken by mastery and that becomes your echo of light.

Echo of light
Healing = TriggerHeal * MasteryValue(PriestHolyHealing,false) / 2

So, healing * mastery value/2

Duration (sec) = 6 but seen it as 7 ingame
Interval (sec) = 3
Cannot crit.

Thus you can control the amount you get from echo of light by keeping mastery at some level and increasing crit and vers. Crit is more rng but powerful when it happens. Vers is more stable, as it is applied to each time you can a healing spell.

At some point you will reach an optimal balance between all three stats. If you are too powerful, then that extra healing from echo of light is wasted as overheal. Too weak and that means you have to cast more healing spells to make up for it. This hits mana and you could go oom.

Having echo of light as the number one source of healing in your logs is very important.

So ingame I get:
Flash Heal = 3476 From combat log.
Mastery = 38.4%
Versatility = 9.60%
Intellect = 1489
EoL = 667 From combat log

Mathematics
Total healing multiplier = 1.05x1x1.096 (vers) = 1.1508
Flash Heal = 2.03 * 1489 * 1.1508 = 3,478 this is the value of the tool tip for my flash heal. Ingame the flash value will change. Also if there is a crit it will double.
EoL = 3,478 * 0.384 = 667
Crit is 17% or 0.17 which is 1/6. So 1/6 is the probability of a crit. Crit heal means a x2 to the amout healed. The Crit heal Multiplier.

Power Cost = PlayerBaseMana * 0.036 = 50000 * 0.036 = 1,800

Prayer of Healing
Healing = 0.875 * TotalSpellPower * TotalHealingMultiplier = 1,499
Max Targets = 5

1,499 x 5 = 7,496

EoL = 1,499 * 0.384 /2 = 287
287 * 5 = 1,435

Power Cost = PlayerBaseMana * 0.05 = 50000 * 0.05 = 2,500

Crit is 17% or 0.17 which is 1/6. So 1/6 is the probability of a crit. Crit heal means a x2 to the amout healed. The Crit heal Multiplier.

Flash Concentration
0.15 * 3,478 = 3,999.7
EoL = 767.9
total healing = 4,767.6424

Would still take two flash heals to equal or exceed one prayer of healing.

If we go with Harmonious Apparatus, Holy Oration and take the talent Prayer Circle. We can boost AoE even more by reducing CD’s of the holy word spells. Prayer Circle also reduces the cast time of the prayer of healing that follows. Prayer of Mending decreases the CD of the single target holy word Serenity. Circle of Healing reduces the cooldown of Holy Word: Sanctify, along with prayer of healing.

Harmonious Apparatus
Circle of Healing reduces the cooldown of Holy Word: Sanctify, Prayer of Mending reduces the cooldown of Holy Word: Serenity, and Holy Fire reduces the cooldown of Holy Word: Chastise by 4 sec.

Thats with vers which is the raid build. vers and mastery. So with Flash heal you do approx. 4,145 hp of healing total for 1800 mana. For Prayer of Healing you do approx. 8,931 hp of healing total for 2500 mana. It would take 2.15 flash heals to equal a single Prayer of Healing. So three casts or 5,400 mana to match or exceed one cast of Prater of Healing at 2500 mana (you have to cast flash heal three times but two flash heals are close, very close. Still if you take two flash heals its 3500 mana vs 2500 Prayer of Healing wins). This makes flash heal about twice as expensive as Prayer of Healing if all healing counts.

So if a group needs healing you would never spam flash heal. Both from a healing and mana standpoint. This is for mythic+. All players are likely within 40 yards, need healing and there is no other healer. Thus a high chance for all/most the healing from Prayer of Healing being used. Even if there was a crit, it still takes a flash heal crit and a normal flash heal to reach or exceed prayer of healing. 3000 vs 2500 mana.

Sources: ask mr robot and world of warcraft combat log.

Updates to fix maths mistakes. Conclusions changed as needed.