Sry the “Guldan had a good reason” really hit a nerve
One was bullied the other died and watched their entire nation die and was manipulated and tormented and somebody just cause they wanna defend an argument insist like… its beyond me
So what’s her reason for killing countless innocents in teldrassil? The scourge killing her people?
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You’ll find out in 8.3.
Till then cry in your BBQ tree. Or seek #justiceforGuldan
Party line: The horde coudnt hold tedrassil and it had to be destroyed in order to ensure the alliance coudnt reclaim it.
Same for loderan and darkshore blighting.
Incharater reasons:
Someone called her out on being scourge 2.0 and she lashed out.
Meta reason: Blizzard really like seeing night elves suffer and want to split the zones up into red kalimdor and blue eastern kingdoms for some reason.
The fact that tedrassil cause so many fans unsubbing hit them where it hurt.
There wallets.
There is a reason they want us to forget about it.
Apparent they hadnt learned for tharamorm that these are things people never forget.
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But there is a severe difference in the writing of these events. Teldrassil burned down with all these innocents, I think the flames were even empowered by shamans to ensure that.
In the battle for lordaeron every civilian could be evacuated and sylvanas even destroys the city herself at the end, making it look like a victory for her.
That is the point.
The party line is a lie they tell themselves:
It was neccery.
We totaly didnt want to burn that tree but we had too.
Same old, Same horde.
coughs
Are you -sure- Stormwind can’t burn? I mean, it rather famously can…
Very true, and in some cases exclusively non-human elements of the 7th Legion are deployed, due to the lesser risk of them being raised as Undead (Silverpine and Pyrewood Village spring to mind.)
Hmm, I’m pretty sure for a time she was under Arthas’ control, so would have been part of his invasion of Silvermoon, she and the other Forsaken only won their freedom later, when he split his forces. Chances are therefore pretty darned high that she did kill other High Elves during the Fall. The overall point I agree with, Sylvanas has far more justification for being what she is, than Gul’dan ever did. That’s not the same thing as saying she -is- justified, she most definitely isn’t, but the rationale is more credible.
Its actually a well known psychological phenomenon in our real world, the Abused turns Abuser. Sylvanas is Horrible because Horrible things were done to her. Its actually more common than you would think.
Come on man, that’s a low blow… not worthy.
In a weird way, yes. Yes and no, sorta, its complicated. I’ll try to explain (Skip this bit if you don’t like exposition and theorycrafting)
So, watch the Warbringers cinematic again, I’ll be referring to it a lot… plus its also a brilliant art style.
Remember at this point, Sylvanas is unaware that Malfurion was not killed by Saurfang, she didn’t hang around to watch it. So as far as she is concerned, 1 objective is achieved, the 2nd Objective is right there, in front of her, hers for the taking. She’s -won-. I mean Summermoon even says this with her dying gasps, and then she manages to slide the mental shiv right into Sylvanas with her simple words.
Sylvanas isn’t planning on burning Teldrassil, she specifically gives the order to prepare to invade it. And then, Summermoon speaks. She makes Sylvanas relive and recount the most horrible experience of her existence, and something changes. You see a living Sylvanas, fierce, determined to save her people, everything that Summermoon is to the Kaldorei. You see Sylvanas fail, just as Summermoon has. Sylvanas witnesses her own demise, and crushingly the woman and her baby child lying dead (Pretty bold move of Blizzard to show dead babies in a cinematic to be honest). Summermoon says “It is over, you have won, only innocents remain” Innocents, like the woman and baby Sylvanas has to witness lying dead, in the knowledge that all of her efforts had meant -nothing- I mean the symbology of it is beautiful, Sylvanas screaming in pain, fade to black, then her snarling red eyed face flashes into view. Notice her tears are now seared into her face (more on that later).
She isn’t even aware of what she is saying at this point, she isn’t yet aware of the massive unintentional trap in what Summermoon is saying, but we are. History is repeating itself, with Sylvanas as Arthas, and Summermoon as Sylvanas. She even maintains her brittle aloofness, willing to be the villain in this scene. Look at her facial expression as she gloats “Don’t grieve, you will be with your loved ones soon enough” Look how it -Turns- when Summermoon says “I grieve…for you”
BAM!
That’s it, that’s the bullet to the head moment that changes -everything- Check out Sylvanas’ reaction, that -really- hit home unlike anything else ever did.
“You have made life your enemy, and that is a war you can never win”
Summermoon strikes again. Sylvanas has, she has made life her enemy, because it is too painful to feel, too painful to be trapped by morality or empathy, and it -is- a war she can never win. How do we know that? Because she has not managed to. Look at Nathanos, arrow in her quiver? or is there still some vestige of her feelings in life towards him? I think the answer is pretty obvious going by the ‘Dark Mirror’ short story.
War on Life is a War she -cannot- win, she has not managed to do so even in her own mind.
“You can kill us, but you can’t kill Hope”
And the world falls apart. Whose hope? Sylvanas looks away, looks at the tree, she isn’t even talking to Summermoon as she murmers “Can’t I?”
Its not Summermoons Hope, or the Kaldorei’s Hope that she is trying to kill. It is her Own.
Hope betrayed her again and again, Can she truly win a war against Life? Her Life? Hope? Her Hope?
She makes a good attempt at it, when she orders the tree burned, Even Nathanos is like “WTF Boss?”.
Oh Sylvanas was trying to kill hope alright. Her own.
Or maybe she is just Batguano insane…
(Edit as I forgot to mention it: Want any more proof of the direct parallel in the story? Watch the final view you have of Summermoon as Teldrassil burns, why yes, those are tears burning into her face as she dies. Beautiful beautiful symmetry)
Anyway…
Err, No it didn’t?
Ehhh, a lot of them, not all of them, you rescue a few yourself as the player character, and I highly doubt you were the only person evacuating people… Good point on the Shamans thing, I think that would be essential, have you seen how long it takes a -normal- tree to burn. They’d have had like a week on Teldrassil before they had to start worrying 
That makes sense though Sylvanas knows the Alliance will come for her, she is forewarned, so she can begin evacuation before the Alliance even set sail. Also, destroying your own city is not exactly a victory. Its like football, an ‘own goal’ still counts for the rival team. If your situation is that desperate that you have to destroy your own capital, that is pretty much a defeat in anyone’s book…
Watch the cinematic. Even Sylvanas didn’t originally want to burn it…
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I like this theory and agree with it.
Uh yeah it did.
Mass amount of subs.
The entire having tyranda behave like tyranda again(for 1.5 seconds but still) the terror of darkshore (a rush job as you call tell by the lack of quality compaire to the other cinimatic’s, Still good but you can tell it was put togather quickly)
Also i believe araphant and zukrio can comfirm it.
You miss the point.
Sylvanas lost control and had the tree burned.
The horde later justifice it as a neccery evil.
Malfurion was alive.
They coudnt hold to tree against malfurion.
They had to burn the tree if they wanted a chance at winning this war.
I am not saying there proud of it.
Just that it is easier to convince the horde that it was done for the good of the horde then because sylvanas lost control.
That was quite beautifully written, kudos. I think Sylvanas should hire you to write her eulogy 
So Sylvanas killed an entire planet with fel magic and orchestrated the biggest legion corruption we know so far, twice? Didn’t know that.
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Wait for it, we still have 8.3 where she will be redeemed a hero and everything she did will be forgotten.
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To be fair unlike sylvanas, kerrigan wasnt so much forgiven as that she became all powerfull and they coud no longer punish her.
This company is digging its own grave with that plot, regardless the amount of atrocities Sylvanas has committed will never be washed away if she is revealed as a heroine or savior…the amount of skill required to write such a difficult climax and plot is clearly beyond the written expertise of that team as previous experience show.
8.3 will either break the lore and people’s will to care about the plot completely or it will propel the story of WOW to a new more epic fantasy.(Do you guys remember the last cut scene of WOD lol)
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Starcraft II ended four years ago. And I’m still not over how Blizzard wanted me to believe Mengsk was the bad guy and Kerrigan was the hero.
Vengeance for Mengsk! Vengeance for Daelin!
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Ow he was a bad guy.
Betraying your loyal operative and leaving her to die.
Using zerg to slaughter entire planet worth of people.
Setting up a dictatorship and ruling it with an iron fist.
Just to name a few.
Kerrigan had the zerg dna excuees.
Where mengsk did it all out of his own free will.
I would love to hear your arguements why he wasnt a bad guy.
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Considering how she killed his parents, I don’t blame him. He was a tyrant, but how was Kerrigan any better? She killed millions of innocents just to get to him. There are shots of entire worlds being literally consumed by her zerg. And she did this when she was “trying to get better”.
Ow i agree she is worse.
I just want to hear how he isnt a bad guy.
He would be considered a “bad guy” in a limbo, since he was a ruthless revolutionist who committed some pretty terrible things. But in the context of the story of Starcraft II? I don’t see how he was the bad guy, even compared to Hots Kerrigan. He was the lesser of two evils. Heck, Kerrigan was down with exterminating the people of Korhal (basically Stormwind but if it were as big as Azeroth) just to kill Mengsk, and changed her mind only after his son Anduin, err, I mean Valerian, pleaded her not to commit genocide.
Also I’d like to point out that he committed genocide on Tarsonis only after they themselves bombarded Korhal and turned it into a wasteland. So even if it was an “evil” act, you could at least see where Mengsk was coming from. Something you can’t do with Kerrigan in HotS, because again she is murdering millions just to get one guy.
To return to Warcraft, that’s also why I don’t think Sylvanas is Kerrigan 2.0. Kerrigan AT THE VERY LEAST wanted to be redeemed. She decided to listen to Valerian and spare as many civilians as possible. Sylvanas would never do something like that. If someone asked her to “spare as many civilians as possible”, she’d be like “boy you mad? You don’t know what my unique ability is and how I wage war?”.
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Sry but according to their logic Bullying is more of a reason to go evil than watching your entire nation die and then be raised and manipulated tormented etc
So only way someone could think its worse is if they relate.
Thus said question
I am more concerned about their morals if they justify Guldan and condemn Sylvannas actually… perhaps cause Guldan didnt hurt the nelfs
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