Again all you talk about is damage. You have zero clue why arms is a great design in pvp and the best it’s been in years. What you say also isn’t true. There is a damage increase for execute and overpower in pvp.
First of all when you’re talking about talents you’re talking about a build. Secondly you were moaning about warriors having to much burst. If you want to change your tune to say it’s just theory crafting to a unviable builds but just looking at how you could if Blizzard changed legendaries etc how big a crit arms could achieve then why have you posted in a thread calling for nerfs? I think you’re being disingenuous if you’re now claiming that wasn’t you trying to use that as a call for a nerf.
I also don’t think your ideas on it being better for damage are correct either. You’d miss out on Condemns and building bigger MS with Exploiter.
You imply you agree in technically correct in what I say; I’ve told you previously I disagree with your ideas for what Arms should look like; I also happen to think that the reason your ideas are wide of the mark is because you don’t play it much in PVP or PVE so don’t have a great first hand grasp on Arms as a spec.
That’s fine you’ve said you main a DH and I’m guessing you’ve had some issues facing Arms, which I’m not surprised about as personally I find DH possibly the easiest opponent in both RBGs and Arena. I don’t know if other Arms have similar experiences on that.
That’s not to say Arms is perfect clearly in PVE they’re underperforming and seemingly didn’t scale very well with better gear in this tier and in PVP the utility makes them one of the stronger classes in Arena, it’s just your understanding of the issue isn’t quite right and your ideas for a fix would gut the Arms identity.
Now you’re pivoting. I mentioned damage because that’s what people see and one of the aspects of Arms being broken in PvP.
Other aspects that are problematic
- are how MS is a one-hit-does-all button.
- Arms can assume a permanent 20% damage taken stance that makes people effectively waste their own cooldowns, though this is more an issue of everyone else having easy access to those burst cooldowns in the first place. If fewer specs had those Defensive Stance would be unnecessary.
- A lot of abilities that are useless or near useless when soloing yet becomes highly useful in a group fight where everyone is taking damage.
When I’m talking about a specific build I’m talking about a specific build. I should had been more clear so I can understand where your confusion comes from.
And when it comes to burst, save for Avatar, all of the ones I mentioned were baseline with only one being Covenant based if you want the +100% damage easily. I then mentioned Rend as an additional, meaning that in context you can get this optionally.
And I loathe Condemn with a passion as it’s badly designed ability that holds Arms back. In PvE when it does 50% of the damage done then it’s badly designed even if the performance is good as it prevents the other abilities from being buffed to do acceptable damage since they can be combined with Condemn.
Everything is balanced around its potential instead of its average as else you’d have people gunning for the potential if the average was decent in order to min-max.
And you’re welcome to disagree, however, you have to provide clear arguments for the reason you think my arguments and ideas are wrong in order to give your arguments of them being wrong and ending it there any cridebility.
Not pivoting, that’s the first time you have mentioned anything other than damage and you’ve done that retro-actively.
That’s a personal preference, I get sometimes people don’t like a certain play style.
I personally don’t really find Condemn going as high as 50% of my damage; it’s usually 25-30% ish; which seems a lot more reasonable and I personally prefer that to the 20-25% odd deep wounds was doing on N’Zoth for me.
In PVP you don’t get 100% on exploiter even if you’re not Venthyr.It got buffed for PVE (although it’s still nowhere near Kings for me) but Max you’ll get is 50%.
Your earlier points on burst and MS modifiers and the healing debuff etc in PVP
weren’t quite right on the numbers and sure you’ve said talent choices such as rend were just for show, but aren’t an issue as they won’t be chosen. Arms burst isn’t as high as a number of other classes - and needs more setup for the possible big crit with exploiter. So burst isn’t an issue. The healing debuff they’re rolling out to additional classes, so will be nothing special and is I’m guess designed as they think healing is to strong.
Also to mirror your argument, you don’t like Condemn, but for me the changes you suggested would make Arms less fun to play.
Yes, pivoting. You also only responded to damage. I remember you saying once that there were other things. Which is what people notice. They never notice the other things, unless they have a bubble/block then they notice ST. Healers notice the MW effect. Context.
Consistent and on-demand burst. The larger issue is that Arms can set up a large hit and inflict a large hit situationally when everyone else have used their on-demand burst.
Arms have few to no big CDs that enhance DPS (basic), the one they have is on a relatively short CD, so, when others are “out” Arms can go on. To use a sports analogy. Every other class and spec in the game are sprinters. Arms is a marathon runner. During the short distances, Arms is easily outclassed by others. On the long distances, Arms outclasses every other spec in the game as it can keep going forever if they pace themselves.
The two compliments each other well, however, since only Arms has that trait Arms is the only one that complements other specs. If a team has a Warrior and a Rogue the Rogue and the Warrior are strengthened. If it has two Rogues it just has more of the same, including the same owindown of opportunity.
No, definitely not pivoting. You gave no other argument than damage to respond to in your completely clueless assessment of why arms needs a total rework in pvp. (save condemn charge and intervene which I noted in the beginning)
Yes, Nerf warrior!
In PvP?, Arms needs a total rework. I said that the same things that make Arms bad in PvE makes it superior in PvP.
Just a rework instead of a nerf.
Except this a thread talking specifically about arena. I’m pretty happy with how it’s performing in pve too. Herioc raid and M+. It does need a buff in pve to stay competitive but a total rework? Nah
It needs a rework. When the main damage ability is so inconsistent it can only be balanced around the average DPS of it, meaning that sometimes it’ll hit like a wet noodle and at other times like a run-away train. All of these numbers are contained in the average as measured over time. This means that in situations shorter or longer than the time the average is based on Arms will either under-or overperform.
All the situational damage modifiers to MS needs to go away and MS needs to hit harder than it does currently, with some of the damage boost being given to Slam, in return the utterly stupid hits possible with MS will be impossible.
With the damage being a constant then Arms can be properly buffed.
With the situational modifiers gone and there’s still a desire for them to do something have them generate the Rage for the spec or increase the amount of Rage generated to make the spec more fluid in playstyle.
If they finally nerf Arms in arena and make the spec unplayable there , maybe we finally get a shadow priest treatment ! And we got the best melee 2 handed weaponmaster rework we deserve!
I think we are just helt back because of arena 3v3 balance and players. Imagine a team deathmatch gamemode is holding us hostage and destroy creativity because of balance in a team deathmatch game with no objective.
I believe it’s more fear and bias of a potentioal rather than any reational basis.
I don’t know if requiring a crit when most people have such low crit means you can call it consistent and its a single hit when you get it, where other classes have a period of burst which actually means in terms of ‘bursting’ someone down you stand much more chance of success. But whilst not every other spec is a sprinter - I agree that Arms are more the distance runner; they offer sustained moderate pressure and good protection for their healer through things like Intervene and CS instead of a short period of panic as you deal with the insane burst some classes can put out before a period of relative ease before the next burst window.
Surely that the same with most arena combinations that you pick classes that compliment each other - Arms isn’t the only class that does that, it has unique abilities, but so does every class and spec. Two warriors would also be worse than a rogue and a warrior…
a 3.5k MS can HIT for up to 13.5k. It becomes even more extreme if the crit actually happens. There’s a reason an MS hit in a BG made with the Berserker buff can sometimes instantly delete people.
@Arcana Warrior is a perfect class. The constant pressure is way better gameplay than the “1 button delete spell” many other classes have. Warrior are in no need of a rework, but I salute you for trying.
Judging by your armory and pvp-check you dont actually play the game so that answers your bad knowledge about it.
I no longer play my Warrior as my main. And your arguments presented hedges on ad hominem.
You make some arguments I’ll ask you to detail them. “Warrior is a perfect class,” then explain what makes them perfect. The constant pressure is something other classes have as well. The “one-button” delete takes a lot of setups and if the setup is made then no one can match the “one-button” delete of Arms.
I can if they use it as a reason to ignore my arguments. Then it’s literally an ad hominem. If people would say, “this is my experience,” then they would be honest about it being anecdotal. If they backed it up with actual data then it would stop being anecdotal.
If they just say, “oh, you don’t play a warrior actively so anything you say will be dismissed out of hand and you’re wrong because of that,” then it’s ad hominem.
If they cite my lack of experience and back it up with actual data then it would be both condescending and a valid argument.
Ad hominem is an appeal to an emotional view. The moment you appeal to an emotional view, then the argument is anecdotal even if it sounds legit.
And getting all the modifiers I mentioned to stack up is rare, I would say a 0.1% chance of it happening, however, the design has to look at the individual potential instead of the total average or median to make balance. And by the law of averages if something only has a 0.1% chance of happened then it’ll still happen to one person out of a thousand. If there are 200.000 data samples then it’s going to happen to 200 people. Since PvP is an activity that affects another person then 200 people would be directly affected by it, if this is 3v3 then the other two players on the enemy team would be indirectly affected, then it’s 600 people affected in one way or the other. This would also indirectly affect you and your team which would increase the number of people indirectly affected by another 600, and suddenly 1200 people are either directly or indirectly affected by this.
And 1200 people is a lot. I see far fewer people complain on the forums.
I see that you’re trying to poison the well. Actually, I have a UCBA in occupational therapy from 2015.
It says a lot of negative things about you that the only response you have instead of an actual argument is attempting to poison the well.
You were the one who brought up titles in your implied statement that I was probably a uni student who had learned some dance words and used them without understanding their context. This is both arrogant and condescending. Your 180 is a result of me actually knowing what I talk about. Your shift in attitude comes from a belief that uni students know nothing.
Give me a reason for that I should care even one bit about your titles? You’ve adequately shown in your actions that talking to you is a waste of my time.