Solo Shuffle issue with rating

[Malfyurion-ragnaros]

So for the past few weeks, I tried to play a solo shuffle, but my main concern and issue are that even when I get 3-3, 4-2, or even 5-1 but better stats, I don’t get any rating either 0 or minus whatever, there was one occasion when I got 1 XD for 5-1 wins. Can you please fix this? I mainly play PVP, and shuffle is what I always wanted, but the system now is hard to enjoy. I’m not even talking about the long q times.
Please, guys, solve this as soon as possible!
Thank You, and keep up the good work!

[Bewarê-frostmane]

@Malfyurion-ragnaros

So for the past few weeks, I tried to play a solo shuffle, but my main concern and issue are that even when I get 3-3, 4-2, or even 5-1 but better stats, I don’t get any rating either 0 or minus whatever, there was one occasion when I got 1 XD for 5-1 wins. Can you please fix this? I mainly play PVP, and shuffle is what I always wanted, but the system now is hard to enjoy. I’m not even talking about the long q times.
Please, guys, solve this as soon as possible!
Thank You, and keep up the good work!

@Bewarê-frostmane

Alright, let’s break down the way the rating system works.

It always tries to get to the average

If you’ve got, let’s say 1800 personal MMR, but you’re teamed up with two players on 1600 personal MMR, then it uses that initial MMR to determine your team’s MMR which in turn decides the opponents’ average team MMR. This is how it works in the normal ladder, we all know that, yeah?

So with it working like that, it keeps matching you up with opponents to increase the certainty of your rating as a team. Meaning if you played a team with 1700 average MMR, and won that, then it’ll try to match you up with something slightly higher, let’s say 1725 average team MMR, but your own average team MMR also increased by 25. If you win that too, then it’ll try to increase the MMR even more, even though the difference in the MMR between your team and the opponents’ didn’t change.
This effect is from the GlickoRD systems, because it tries to place people “where they belong” faster and faster if the win/loss rate shows you really don’t belong where it’s matching you.

In the Elo system this wouldn’t change from streaks, but the Glicko systems are all about stabilized ratings and destabilized ratings, to ultimately increase the theoretical accuracy of the system compared to the Elo system.

Anyway, so this rating deviation function is very unclear about how it works in the shuffle system, since it doesn’t give out wins and losses rating-wise until the shuffle has ended and then it gives 'em out all at once, so it’s kinda weird.

But anyway, so going back to the example, that’s what it normally does in the normal ladder. It’ll keep throwing opponents your way as a team, MMR being affected by your wins and losses, with the ultimate goal of making all of your ratings equal. With every win, the ones lower rated than you win more than you do, and with every loss, you lose more than they do, and eventually you all end up on the same rating.

Fun, right?

Anyway, so that part about winning and losing more, is 100% present in shuffle’s system as well. It’s trying to do the same thing there, the lower rated ones wins more than the higher rated ones, because it’s designed that way, which serves more of a purpose in the normal ladder than in the shuffle ladder.

So how can this be improved for the shuffle?

There is a way to improve it, but Blizzard kinda copypasted way more than they should have from their normal rating system. Also, to be clear, the rating system Blizzard uses is an “original adaption” of the Glicko system, which Blizzard has been using ever since wotlk started (not the classic wotlk that’s up now). They’ve also further developed it ever since then as well, so it’s not entirely the same as Glickman’s systems anymore, but the core functions are still similar.

So the way to improve it, is to slow it down. It may sound counterintuitive, but slowing it down allows for functions like putting in a maximum rating lost & won when you do either, as well as a minimum rating won when you win a round.

Through the function that puts a maximum as well as a minimum, it would let the shuffle ladder reward the win rates more “appropriately” for the game mode. It’d make people reliably win rating from 4+ wins, and lose rating from 4+ losses, but without being punished by the insane MMR matchups the game is forcing players into in shuffle.

As the OP talks about, people generally don’t think of a shuffle game as 6 separate matches played in a row. They think of it as one game, and they either gain or lose rating, or it doesn’t move at all.

But at the end of the shuffle, it’s just summarizing all of the rating lost and won each round in that shuffle, and then you end up with either rating won, lost or that it ended up exactly where you started.

This is causing extremely bad optics for players, and this effect is further amplified by the long queue times.

So they need to change the way the rating system works, and make people get rating more reliably. The way it’s designed to constantly make people get closer to each other in rating when they’re in the same team, is just purely nonsensical in the shuffle format. Rating won and lost needs to become way more predictable and transparent, and for that the system as a whole needs to change.

[Alythena-ravencrest]

h ttps://ibb.co/3NLS99w

like this where u win 6/6 and gain 70 and everyone else gain 0

yo-yo all day 20x row of 3/6 +0 then one 2/6 for -2000000

getting blizzard automated language warnings constant for just typeing focus target “go x” in lobby etc

then watch ppl never press cd and int in opposite sides of arena 6 rounds and u go 3 or 4/6 for +0 for it

riot mmo when?

i wonder if the subs started dropping yet or if it takes few more months and then blizz starts doing some changes to winback trade few of them

this pattern it seem very familiar, like ive seen it before

[Netrisha-ravencrest]

3/3 for healers should 100% give rating in most of the matches you cant do anything in almost every match there is one very good player and everybody else is playing the game first time so he wins all matches both healers get 3/3 and +0 cant do anything no matter how good they play dampening cuts them off anyway

[Huffel-argent-dawn]

i play 3/3 most of the time and gain 0

really fun as a healer

[Belorious-aerie-peak]

That or +1…

[Netrisha-ravencrest]

did blizzard say something about this i mean why shuld healers play?

[Huffel-argent-dawn]

blizzard should bring 20 min bfa damp games back just to annoy dps players

[Iowercase-ravencrest]

Netrisha makes a very compelling point tbh.

If Blizzard’s intent is to make going 3/3 a waste of a Healer’s time by rewarding them with nothing then perhaps the game shouldn’t actively work against them via dampening and preventing drinking.

Could you imagine DPS being punished for not being able to land kills because the game reduced their damage output by 20% every minute lmao.

[Isyutaru-argent-dawn]

Thank you for this great explanation.

[Kathey-auchindoun]

My question is why do i always face low mmr healers when i hit +1.7 cr/mmr whatever it is.
My solo shuffle journey is up to 1.7 and back to 1.5 again. I’m done with it as long as it stays like this. Really frustrating and its about to turn me into a toxic person I’m getting mad to myself when i make a mistake and oh boy i’m gettin real mad when others do mistakes. It’s better for me to stay away from it. It was fun tho Keep working on it blizz, you got this.

[Terninator-draenor]

Check this one out, I DONT get the system.
I win 5/6 I loose rating … but this one - please explain - nobody lost rating,

6w 1404 rated +72 rating
3w 1457 rated +9 rating
3w 1482 rated +0 rating
2w 812 rated +19 rating
2w 1261 rated +17 rating
2w 384 rated +192 rating
453 rating was gained total, none lost.

i.imgur. com/jkRjLMM.png
I quite understand that lower rated playing well gains more :D, but 0 lost ?

[Tippurimylly-stormreaver]

That means you are in your own bracket since yoi neither lose or gain rating. Everyone in the game has same chances in long run. You dont get carried by randoms by luck, you need to make the difference to win the games.

If you think there isnt anything you can do to win, then how the heck people manage to win more games and climb? Atm the ladder is just very deflated and most people play <1600 since the skill level is almost the same

[Tippurimylly-stormreaver]

If you say you cant do anything → you live in denial and cant accept the fact you are in your own bracket

I played solo suffle consistently winning 4/6, play about 2 rounds per week and got to 1920. Havent tried to queu this week but every week i got rating and climbing to 1900 seems quite easy. And at everygame i have noticed something i could do better, this could have been my chance to make 5/6 or 6/6 wins. If you cant see where you can improve, you will not really improve and get stuck at your bracket

[Terninator-draenor]

@Tippurimylly-stormreaver

how the heck people manage to win more games and climb

It’s not the wins %, its the lobby luck, if you are the lowest you can win a little to a lot.

[Tippurimylly-stormreaver]

so if you have +75% win rate you dont climb or wtf u are saying? if you think lobby luck exists in place where everyone has the same chance in the long run, you are drinking some very heavy copium.
There is no lobby luck, l2p issues

[Terninator-draenor]

So 6 players joins : 1484, 1409, 1425, 1421, 1366 and … 0
How can a player join a 1400+ arena game as his first?

Everyone not winning +4 matches Looses rating.
0 rating guy wins 1 out of 6 matces - gaining nearly 200 rating :)))))

[Amei-mirage-raceway]

@Tippurimylly-stormreaver

That means you are in your own bracket

Yeah… I have to put tremor before getting a fear or sleep, fake cast or grounding interrupts, interrupt incoming ccs, and I have to be happy for 3-3 because the opponent healer is almost always a druid who face rolls 80% of the match with zero casts, unccable cc god, then pops tree when dampening gets rough. Zero skill gg “you are on your own bracket”.

[Loor-twisting-nether]

Same for me bro 3 out 3 win 0 rating
not fun

[Axetomouthh-nemesis]

well, I play both healers and dps, the 3-3 issue is not just healers related. In both cases it is pretty annoying.
My major issue is that 99% of the times I get into games where for some reason or another, even if I win 4-2 I get 0 rating. Every time I lose, I mean every single time I instead lose rating.
Now I understand that there are both rating and mmr to consider but in all honesty this is becoming just frustrating. How come that I always end up in a ss where the only way to get rating is winning 5-1 or 6-0?
I’m no gladiator but in Shadowlands I was duelist on 2 chars and rival 2 on all the others I had, so I presume I have a decent understanding of the game.
I love the solo shuffle structure and I don’t really have time to always catch up with my arena mates, but the rating side of it is becoming really frustrating. It’s not my choice queuing for 20-30 mins and then enter in a ss with people who have lower mmr. I believe this needs a serious re-think.