It does. It prooves, that the alliance can be a worthy oponent if it wants. The proof was last week “massacre”. But, the problem are the players. When rewards where removed, so did alliance players removed WM. Thats the problem.
And the difference between horde and alliance, is that at least on my shard (!!!), the horde is keeping WM on, no matter if we get rewards freebies or not,while the alliance is keeping WM on only if it receives freebies.
Thank you for your description about me. It shows perfectly what a person you are. Regarding the argument…still you didnt answered: why alliance keeps WM off now? Can you try again to give your answer? This time without describing me? Thank you.
There is no problem between the number of horde and alliance players. Even if horde are numerical superior to alliance, they prooved that they can defeat and atack the horde…if they want and if they are motivated (last weeks freebies for example). So stop with this crap ideology, that the horde has more players.
The problem are the players. Especially alliance players. They keep WM off because they are cowards and can only atack in large groups, not small groups or solo. And when Blizz doesnt give them freebies, they turn WM off.
First of all ,everything written above has no sense. Second, you still avoid my question. You go far away from the question and start other topics that has no connection with the question.
I didnt get emotional. If i remember right, your ally friends did, when they disliked my truth and reported me, just because i gaved you a example between real life and game life. Both have deep connections, yet, just because the topic doesnt suits your arguments, the choice was obvious : reporting. If i would be emotional, i woulded created a char on your shard and hunted you down. Thats emotional.
Imagine that others haved pacience to do that for hours, even half day…
Yes there was who to blame. First the players for theyr childiesh and honorless behaviour. Second Blizz, for keeping side for only one part of the comunity and that they didnt took it as a whole.
Sadly, on entire EU realms statistics, horde is in a small inferiority. Latest statistics, say that on EU , alliance is 50,2% and horde is 49,8% (realmpop-com). Taking in consideration that the total number is huge, thoose 0,2% difference, means a few tenth of thousands of players difference players. So alliance has more players. I know that thoose statistics are made by number of accounts and characters, not active characters now. But still there is a difference.
The flight point incident started with 2 H attacking 1 A.
A few more A landed & jumped in to fight. By the time there were more than 5 A, any H arriving or res’ing had no hope & it was easy pickings.
If it makes you feel better, when I left the group, alliance phased out & I got annihilated by Horde in exactly the same spot
Maybe your stats are right, I guess I was judging pvp numbers based on horde que times for BG’s, I always assumed there were a ton more horde PvP’rs than ally, but idk.
I’d like Alliance to keep WM on, but outside of assaults, you won’t see me around much either, I’m usually in bg’s, picking flowers or levelling alts.
wPvP can be loads of fun, I’d like to be enticed into it more (raids assaulting Tiragarde/Zandalar, defending King Anduin, trying to track down that rogue that keeps killing Auctioneers!).
I guess people have legit reasons to turn WM off (ganked, levelling, gathering, chilling?)
It’s not a matter of alliance or horde. It’s a matter of flaws in the implementation. Flaws that allow raids form to gank people in quest areas where quest progress is not gained while being in a raid. “War mode” should be renamed to “Group mode” since you are simply outnumbered unless you’re in a group. My personal experience is that I barely see any alliance, but when I do - there’s a whole raid of them. Which means that sharding system is broken. You can say that don’t play solo, join a group. And what a 5 man group can do vs 20man raid? Yeah, most of people who “pvp” in raids are pathetic noobs, but 4v1 even pathetic noobs can win. And I’ve been a “pathetic noob”, cause I happened to level my ally the same week when free 400 welfare item was being given out. I joined a group of gankers and had as much fun as being ganked. I despised the experience, yet I wanted the item.
When it is pvp it is fun. I don’t mind getting killed by a stronger player who is better than me. But when I get ganked by 20 of them and can simply watch while my CC’ed character is being torn apart - that is the opposite of fun in my dictionary.
This is by design, it’s intentional, not a problem, part of the solution to region faction balance. There are wm pve’ers, on both factions, region wide, but Horde have a large excess, which needs fixed… that is the problem. Shards are faction balanced, but will vary in player type, lfg effect, player distribution, etc.
During aoo, the temporary excess Alliance pve’ers serve a by design purpose, reducing the Horde excess pve’ers, until 15% is reached, at which point excess Alliance pve’ers are wm off. That is intentional design and expected, though blizz hope some will keep wm on ofc.
And Horde excess pve’ers are now reduced at 15%. WPvP is better at 15% than at 20%. But there’s still excess Horde pve’ers, I see them all the time… observational ofc, but the only important stat, the 15% bonus supports the observation for region.
Horde pve’ers gradually turn wm back on when no aoo, and we return to 20%, and repeat. This is hopefully going to permanently reduce a % of Horde pve’ers at each pass. It’s good to have a mix of player types in wm, variety, but excess of non wpvpers on one faction affects shard player type balance too much. If we reach 10% faction balance, hopefully player type balance will be reached.
What you consider a flaw is the design and intent of the game mode. Multiplayer, open wpvp, anything can happen. Not everyone will like it, but it’s not a flaw that grouping up is often required to compete, it’s deliberate design.
I don’t mind fights that I lose as long as there is a chance I can fight back. Being killed by overwhelming odds its boring. Killing as a member of a large raid is equally dull. I would probably do exactly the same with an alt, because the game encourages me to do so.
A combination of sharding and designing the game around small rewards makes wpvp less enjoyable. The issue with small rewards is that it is a cornerstone of modern wow. I think this leads to why a larger amount of the community are unhappy about BFA. Getting a new item back in the good old days felt like an achievement. When I got a new item back in the days of pre-cata, it felt like I had managed something, it was fun. These days I feel almost nothing when I get an incremental upgrade over my previous item. I geared an Alt in almost no time at all so it can now take part in heroic BoD. Losing that sense of achievement from gearing is different discussion however.
My point in regards to this topic is, now they have made the quest a thing, people will be upset if it is removed. to be honest the quest reward isn’t that fantastic now anyway, there are plenty of other places you can get gear.
So my suggestions for making wpvp better, is to not allow any pvp quest to be completed in a raid group. This will stop people joining a group and being dragged into the same shard. True it wont stop large numbers of players building up, but can players be tagged like mobs are. for example if a 5man group tags a mob it goes grey to everyone else, including those on your faction. Can players be tagged like this, meaning gankers gain no benefit from killing you (i.e. doesn’t progress the AOO quest). This may encourage large groups not to build up. Large scale world pvp would therefore be reserved for those that enjoy it, or want revenge. it cannot be used to progress a quest.
As far as flight paths are concerned, when you land, you are worth no honour. which is good. However, if you are killed it still goes towards the pvp quest. Can this honourless target remove peoples ability to progress their quest. It would stop flight path ganking.
or as others have suggested remove the ability for players to pick up the quest each week if they have not spent a certain amount of time with WM on the previous week. This stops players flipping it on and off. It will also mean those that are encouraged to pvp for the free loot, are then around to boost numbers in wpvp all week long. I have joined raids who have gone ganking capital cities on both factions. They are often very empty =/
It could go a long way to helping the problem. What do people think? at the end of the day, don’t we want a solution that works for all?
I overall agree with your post, but every time I see this suggestion, without giving a specific reason: I don’t like it
So if I shuffle between all my chars, the one I like to pvp with gets shoved in the background one week, and then I can’t get a quest that might make it fun to pvp or even gather factions in the same area.
But yeah, something needs to be done with the quest, but I don’t think locking it behind something like this would encourage pvp, it could end up doing the same thing as the quest rewards and 30% bonus
the reason for the suggestion is that players seem to turn WM on, complete the quest and then turn it off. that means the quest isn’t achieving the goal of getting players involved with wpvp. Theres a short window where the ganking is horrible followed by a period of time when its very difficult to even find players of the opposing faction most of the time.
Pvp servers meant that you were pvp enabled 24/7. Now people can dip in and out at will. you only have to be pvp enabled for the 20 mins you need to join a raid and farm your 25 kills. Why should people be rewarded for that? It also means that outside those 20 mins there are fewer players to fight with.
The alternative is that once you turn on WM you are stuck in that mode for a certain period of time.
you must have a similar issue playing as an alliance player. One week the quest is up theres lots of players, the following week there are very few and you have a horrible time with horde players. This oscillation between high player numbers and low player numbers is not working.
If it works then great. If it doesn’t, it cant make the situation any worse.
Time gating already pisses people off, and some people don’t feel they have time to play alts anymore - I somehow don’t think a quest that is locked behind your attendence on a char would help either.
im not suggesting its time logged on. it can count time you are offline. Im talking about having WM on for days, perhaps the entirety of the past week.
I don’t understand why people play with WM off. BFA is a boring grind atm, why would I filter out any chance to do something exciting.
WM gives a bonus because in theory if you PvP as you level your not going to be levelling as quickly.
Taking in consideration that in the last 2 weeks and 1 week more from now on, i have holliday, so i can answer that i play almost at all times (morning, afternoon,evening, night). Not everyday i play 24/7, someday i play few hours in the morning,some days, afternoon, and so on.
Last week, during the famous alliance “massacre”, yes. I used LFG to change shards,especially during invasions. It was a fail, because first there where very few groups in the LFG tab and second because most of wq cant be completed in raid group, only in party group (except the bosses wq). When i ignored wq and wanted to join a group, just to fight alliance, usually thoose groups where formed by chaotic and unorganised players. They went alone atacking ally players, died, left group. When sometimes i tried to take innitiative to lead them, regroup and make a organised atack, they didnt listen. Horde players, except pvp players, are chaotic and dont listen. Alliance are more organised and good group players. Thatswhy your last week raids and camping where so succesfull.
Now i dont complain. If you didnt noticed my trolling and irony in my previous post, then you are a real serious cat.
Well taking in consideration how hostile you where towards me in previous comments, i though that you forgot to put that coma.
I didnt blamed others for playing another faction. I blamed the way they play the other faction. Thats a huge difference.
It prooves everything: when Blizz stopped the freebies, alliance turned WM off. Even my cat, has enough intelligence to understand why…
As i showed you on my previous comment and also you can convince yourself (there is a tehnology called google, its amazing, trust me), total number of ally on all EU realms is higher than total number of horde. And the difference is not 10 players, its huge…tenth of thousands of players. So this argument doesnt fit in our topic. Alliance is more numerous, yet they still keep WM off.
There is this excess because alliance keeps it off. Not because there are not enough alliance players. Now my question is : why a majoritar faction, would keep WM off?
Or, if you kill another player in world map, to receive a buff that doesnt allow you to do/complete any wq for 12h or more for example. This way, there will be a delimitation between pvp-ers and wq-players. Either you do wpvp or wq. Not both. The current situation creates a perfect habitat for players to abuse wpvp by camping or raiding wq locations.
My ideea it would be that when you land, the honorless buff to last longer, 1-1,5 min (so that you have time to avoid unfortunate events) and if you are killed while having the honorless buff, the killer to have his progress on the quest reset to 0. This is the most fair way to avoid camping flypoints.
To differentiate better, between wpvp players and non wpvp players, i would put a lock-out on WM. For example, if you activate the WM, you wont be unable to deactivate it untill next week reset. This will put the player into a decision that will make him think twice and also will exclude leechers joining wpvp (low gear/ilvl/lvl players that join wpvp just for quest and items, usually alts). Nowadays, wpvp, aka WM on, transformed into a “who has the biggest group, wins”, not into a real wpvp.
The initial ideea of WM was great…on paper. But as usually we all know, nothing that is good on paper its good in reality also. Players turn on WM only when it fits theyr needs (this is for ally ofc, because they are the ones who get extra benefits) and after, when freebies are gone, they turn it off. It created inceptive for abuses,bully and childiesh pvp behaviour and created a lot of frustrations.
My ideeas would be the followings:
Lock-out on WM mode. If you turn it on, you cant turn it off, only at next week reset.
To avoid camping flypoints, killing a honorless target, to reset your quest progress to 0.
Adding a wq pvp buff: if you kill another player, you receive a buff wich doesnt allow you to do/complete any wq for 12 or more hours. This avoids creating camping on invasions,wq, etc.
Remove permanently AOO quest and bonuses or give them to both factions. Either both factions get them or none. Siding one faction, just because it has less open world pvp-ers is imoral, especially that alliance is more numerous on EU. Its not horde’s foult that alliance players preffer more pve than pvp. This doesnt give any right to Blizz to side one faction just for this reason.
P.S. : and to add more arguments to my last ideea, 4, how for example Twisting Nether is a majoritar horde realm, so is Silvermoon for alliance. We speak about the total number on all EU realms, not one in particular. Taking in consideration that LFG allows you to party with any player from any realm, one particular realm argument isnt valid. Alliance is more numerous and thats it. Point.
I was hostile because you made a real life threat towards another poster
Otherwise all I have been doing is go against that insane arguments you make about gamers being psychotic
You keep calling me a spy, I am NOT a spy… I am a player who plays every race and aspect of a game I like, and I don’t make real life threats against other players because of that.
If you really need to change text, because you assume something of others… take a break!
I didnt made a threat to him. I wished him exactly what he was doing to others. Its a difference. The fact that what he did was in a game and what i wished him was for his real life, doesnt make any difference. As we prooved in previous comments, gaming behaviour has connection with real life behaviour. You can say that your character and behaviour in-game its like a mirror, showing parts of your real-life open or hidden behaviours.
If you are not a spy, why dont you put in profile your main char, not a bank char?
Besides, you want me to switch chars so it’s reduced to 0 on post count, and switch in order to see when I am replied to… Forget it
A game and real life is 2 different things, if you have problems see the difference, then I suggest a break from games and go venture out in the real world.
No, we didn’t proove anything, because you don’t even know half the stories of those people in those articles do you?
I read those researches, because I sit with schools where I work with parents and teachers in order to make sure what we can allow in class and out of class, I have to be updated.
That’s why I don’t make up stuff to make it fit my rage or annoyance.
The only thing I can say were we are close to each other about chars and personality, is that I think people choose a char based on how their view themselves - now this does only reflect on how you see yourself and how you review a char.
Realmpop and other 3rd party stats are estimating numbers using various factors. It’s a mistake to use them to try and prove a point here. Their data is irrelevant to WM.
What we do have are Blizz’s statements, saying there excess Horde PvEers, and we have the bonus % to tell us roughly how outnumbered Alliance are, and we have the length of time the bonus is at each %, an interesting number.
It’s great to make suggestions, but they always have pros and cons. It’s easy to take down almost any suggestion as unworkable or not required. The bonus system is a good solution, and gets us closer to WM faction balance.
At 20%, we get extra Alliance PvEers and reducing Horde PvEers.
At 15%, we get reduced Alliance PvEers and returning Horde PvEers.
Blizz hope that at each pass of 20%, a % of extra Alliance will leave WM on, and a % of the excess Horde PvEers will leave it off.
That’s a nice natural rebalancing system, that also promotes conflict - with periods of high conflict, then lulls, then more conflict. Keeps WM interesting, avoids stagnation. Even if we never reach equality, looping from 20% to 15% to 20% to 15% is a fun mechanic.
You are getting tired, because i am right and you cant bring any logical and normal argument, except craps. Np, i understand people like you.
Their data prooves that on total, there are more alliance players than horde. Beside that, their data is the only one avaible since Blizz decided to hide statistics regarding the game: nr of subscribers, nr of pvp,etc. And this is very relevant. The fact that alliance keeps WM off, thats the problem. Why they keep WM off if they outnumber horde, as total? Can you answer that?
How convenient. So what would happen if their statement would be in horde’s favor? And second question, why they dont make theyr statistics public? Or their subcribers number? Like it was in the past…
Basically, you ask me to trust a guy from Blizz, saying that alliance is too incompetent and coward for pvp, so they motivate you to pvp with freebies, without bringing any public statistics, proof, anything. That is what you try to explain me?
This is not a natural rebalancing system. Beside the fact that is a artificial intervention, is also taking side of a faction because they dont want to pvp and Blizz wanna force you to pvp by giving you freebies. Its imoral and unequal treatment between factions.
I tried to explain you, but however i did, you still DONT get it and you dont accept the reality: alliance outnumbers horde on overall number on EU, yet they dont participate in wpvp. The question is why? And nobody answer such a simple question.
You coward. When i atacked you, when you was alone, you ran away towards your mates, you knew i follow you. Then you turned back and atacked me when your mates came into your defense. And you come here to tell us what wpvp means…
Look what are you and what you represent: https://gyazo.com/e3cb75c77844a13edae10feb8d7e82f1
Shame on you…
You are a disgrace to world pvp,to the alliance and to this game. Delete your char. Anyway you are useless. You need others to do your biddings for you, because alone you are uncapable. Alone you are nothing. You are 0 .
![:face_with_raised_eyebrow:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/face_with_raised_eyebrow.png?v=6" ":face_with_raised_eyebrow:")
![:disappointed:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/disappointed.png?v=6" ":disappointed:")
![:rofl:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/rofl.png?v=6" ":rofl:")
