i find it more difficult as alliance to do any wq, especially elite ones, when you are soloing it and 3-4 random hordies come, scummy kill you and take your kill 
i find the concept of pvH (player v HORDE) unfair and unfun.
delete horde faction
Now I see. So your problem is the wpvp raids you find in LFG do not play to your standards, eg. do not play good enough, they disband, not coordinated, etc. I told you that my raids are absolutely the same. (even when I lead sometimes, when the leader is passed to me by chance, we wander like headless chicken trying to find the best spot to kill horde at).
But I donât have a problem with this. I havenât heard other people having a problem with non-coordinated raids. We are happy these raids exist, compared to total lack of wpvp in previous expansions. Yesterday evening we met another raid. We were wiped (just imagine). But we gathered again. I did 600 hks in such âuncoordinatedâ raid and half of my Nazmir 1k honor achievement.
You not being happy, I canât help because I think you mainly seek reasons to be unhappy in wpvp and complain, instead of just turning it off.
You still seem to be unable to understand that this is a game. What is the point to keep explaining, when you keep finding irl corelations to compare wpvp with horrible irl crimes?
Of which crime will you accuse me? I often wpvp in raids and collect hks and honor. What am I according to your statistic - a bully, a thug, a serial killer?
You have too high self-esteem to judge who is a normal player and who is not, to classify other people by the way they play a game, in an open world without rules. I have bad news for you: as long as someone doesnât break TOS, heâs free to play as he wants to. You feel yourself superior because you decided not to gank a low lvl? What else can I feel than pity, since you base your inner superiority on insignificant pixels. Some people live in a basement literally, others do to, but in their mind.
You keep repeating âalliance, allianceâ yet you never commented when ppl wrote about horde raids.
Eww⊠Go outside, mate. See, outside the sun is shining. Well right now itâs cloudy, but do take some fresh air, please. I really mean it.
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Hypax, I have a suggestion for you. Why donât you roll on a RP realm (for example AD) and start preaching morality in wpvp? What is evil, how gankers should be punished by holy/unholy lightâŠ
I seriously mean it. Some people might find such RP interesting.
If you only asked in a normal way (like âMy shard is not good, can someone helpâ) I could transfer you to my shard with my horde toon. Heavily horde populated shard, might like it. ButâŠI was accused of crimes against humanity and also by grouping with you I might corrupt your pure beingâŠso will have to abstain 
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This thread became biased by personal opinions and attacks and this is really hard to take objective points.
You just say it only from your own perspective! Blizzard had to introduce something to support their new theme in BfA, which is a battle between factions. They support the theme by saying PvP would bring faction members together and create strong feeling of members belonging to their faction. Look at alliance. They took it literately. I donât care because I play on both factions, I am 100% betrayal 
IMO Blizzard created a flawed system from the beginning which would not work because, at least, both factions has been more PvE or PvP oriented.
As to WPvP, you canât control how players do PvP. I would actually agree with you because bonus and rewards encourage players with no PvP spirit to PvP and than complain because they donât want to lose the bonus. This is IMO why alliance create this huge raid just to score and farm points, which is not what PvP used to be! My understanding of PvP is to challenge those who opt to be challenged turning WPvP on and kill or get killed. Ganking is a side effect of that 
. I guess because of ganking and thrill you experience, those who do PvP want to be rewarded. You understand, thatâs the compromise Blizzard made. As to AOO, I was and will be against this quest because it is 100% unfair move from blizzard. Hordes never had a chance to have something like that, even for one single week and saying that hordes had free 10% bonus is silly.
Regarding frustration you may have, Iâll tell you this. Just yesterday, I played my ally Druid. There was a number of times I fight against Paladins, Shamans, Druids. I tried to kill a Shaman, then Paladin came. They killed me. I came back and tried to kill Paladin (crazy me :p) but he was strong and I had to run. When I came back with CDs, another mates were there but this time my faction mates also came. We killed the whole group. Another one, I was questing on my Rogue, I killed probably 12 alliance getting the assassin buff; just for 5 minutes and then I got killed!
I guess the only frustrating part is when you want to do WQs quickly or you are a levelling player fighting something big and someone just come and kill you. Thatâs mean but we canât have one without another. Personally, if I see there is a couple of huge groups ganking on the whole map and I canât finish quests, I simply turn WM off for the time being. Other than that, I find PvP really enjoying.
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Hey, I can see you are serious about this, and are not happy with bfa and wm. This clouds your judgement on perceived issues with the game. Likewise, sure I only care about fun in wm, because I see no issues. And that makes me positive about the game.
All the wm wpvp issues youâve raised though, are under your control to resolve. I know, this will be considered an insult, but itâs a fact. There is a player solution for every single wpvp issue you encounter in wm.
Realm is not relevant to wm, since in wm we are cross realm. An individual wm shard is faction balanced.
HoweverâŠ
The distribution of players in zones, and lfg groups, will be different per wm shard. If 10 players on your shard, join a group on another shard, you will not see them on your shard. And if you are on the other shard, you will see 10 extra players. This is the lfg effect.
Those players are still part of their original shard, they are just phased out. Depending on whatâs happening with lfg, you can see that this has the potential to make a shard seem unbalanced. But these are just temporary groups, and players return to their shard when it disbands or they leave the group. Interesting dynamic, when combined with natural player distribution in zones as well.
This means that stats like population on your realm does not matter, or overall faction stats eu - because only wm matters, not realm pop. Sure you can draw estimates from third part stats, but no conclusions.
Our bonus amount is our only reliable balance indicator. And it tells us more Horde than Alliance have wm on. Period. You can doubt this and blizzâs word, but I see it as their word is more reliable and relevant than realmpop.
So Alliance are outnumbered eu. If there is an excess of one faction online, there is the possibilty of ending up on an overflow shard, seeing no enemies. This is the real issue of wm, and a great reason for rebalancing with aoo and bonus.
Agreed, we need a rebalance of wpvp between alliance and horde
Keep the AOO quest and bonus. Just stop the AOO being completed in a raid. at least all the alliance players wont be pulled into the same shard, meaning they overwhelming outnumber the horde. It would also mean there would be less shards with overwhelming numbers of horde players making the alliance players day rubbish.
I think both sides of this argument, generally alliance vs horde have good points and neither side is enjoying it. I do think that this AOO quest is a poison chalice for the alliance as well. One week everyone turns on WM to complete the quest. That week is good for the Alliance and poor for the Horde.
The following week the alliance turn off WM because the AOO quest is turned off, the Horde have a great week, the Alliance a poor one.
Add in the lottery with sharding, usually involving a dead shard with no players, or a shard with ridiculously inbalanced numbers of players from both factions.
Iâm not saying the AOO quest is the only reason wpvp isnât that much fun atm. I do believe its contributing to it in its current format. It encourages this quick reward playstyle that WoW has. join a RAID, farm some players, get some loot. You can do all that in like 10 minutes.
Either way, after nearly 15 years of playing on pvp servers/ playing with WM on constantly on both factions. I think Iâm done with wpvp. Good luck to those you are persisting with it, and good for you, those who are still enjoying it.
Ill see how much longer organised pvp holds my attention. If not, maybe its time to let WoW go and consign it to a fond memory.
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Aoo only worked in raid the first week, ever since itâs been parties only. However, sometimes these parties can cluster together and look like a raid. But they are not coordinated.
A smaller Horde raid should be able to wipe em, and aoo groups typically disband after first wipe, phasing back to their own shard. They are likely to have a bounty, so thereâs an incentive to group up via lfg and destroy them. Sounds fun to me anyway.
Shame you are considering giving up wpvp. I almost wish I was on Horde faction, I love being the underdog. Makes me want to retaliate. In Legion I was on an RPPvP server, so in bfa I was on an RP server - heard there was more Horde on normal realms, and did a realm transfer. Was great being often outnumbered and having something to fight against, a reason to group up.
There is no other viable solution to region faction imbalance other than aoo given on forums⊠but how about add a new both factions weekly quest that requires activity in ALL war mode activities; kills, bounties, air drops, assaults, assault crates, and conquest bar filled. Throw in a slightly better item than usual for reward.
This new quest could encourage the Horde wpvpers to fight back⊠I know they donât all need reward, wpvp itself being the reward, but some ofc do like rewards and why not. But reward is a great stimulator for lfg, just like aoo is. And why not be better rewarded based on activity.
Then youâd have aoo trying to re-balance pveâers on both factions, which is at least closer now, but also the new quest incentivising all wpvpers, not just the ones that are happy to group up for no reward other than fun.
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Completely agree.
I enjoy adventure, this ârush-rush-rushâ mentality and game-play systems that support it (feels like all systems in current WoW) are really kick the fun out of it.
Sad, but ty mate!
Check back in 8.2, maybe planned additions to WPvP content would also bring changes to others systems involved.
Yeah, that could be a solution too, hehe.
This is one of the reasons I keep skill training queue in EvE going even without playing it.
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Itâs actually humbling to see a company as big & successful as blizzard having someone handle open world pvp as incompetently as they did.
It was doomed to fail from the day warmode was brought up in one of their business meetings and the guy who gave the green light on it is responsible for this.
Knowing basics about human psychology and how behavioral patterns develop already makes it self-explanatory that people will ALWAYS opt into getting 10% for free even if thereâs risk involved (kind of a pseudo risk actually, because people of the opposing faction are just as likely as you to having no interest in open world pvp and are just there for the extra 10% as well).
It doesnât take much brain power to realize how sharding killed open world pvp PERIOD. Pandoraâs box was opened. If you want that feature of the game back, reverse sharding (which you will not do, for a long list of reasons including economical ones) or take away all of the extra incentives of warmode.
If you add in all the dps increasing pvp talents alongside the 10%(20%) bonuses to Xp/AP/War resources we are talking about 10-30% less time spent on Open World Chores for any player that chooses to put WM on. Ofc people are gonna activate warmode even though they have no plans of doing open world pvp at all.
WM is working fine, plenty conflict happening. If WM on for bonus, they are still part of wpvp by supplying fun kills to wpvpers. Itâs good to try and reduce their numbers though, pvp is the solution for that.
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Vaëyn, when I play with WM on, there is either ganking group or nobody. I am sure you enjoy it and I am impressed how much you support it but I think you are in group of few who do. People are not interested in challenge, they are interested in quick rewards. This conflict creation, fun kills you are referring to is probably what some enjoy but it is also artificial, I am afraid. It will be gone as soon as blizzard removes incentives.
Obviously some players, maybe even majority will be gone ether from WM or the game all together if incentives is removed. WoW is a game thatâs built on incentives to do an activity. How many players do you think would repeat the same dungeons again and again if there was no reward for doing it? Rhetorical question, I hope you understand. Same if rating and rewards are removed from rated PvP, if raids didnât give anything, if Warfronts, IEs⊠even if old raids/dungeons didnât reward with cosmetics/achievements - not many players would do them.
The only difference is that scripted content is the same, always, nothing major is changing, mobs in the same places doing same mechanics, everything predictable and the only thing that makes it repeatable is - rewards.
While WPvP is unscripted and unpredictable - because itâs players making choices, actions, and not some predetermined script, just as numbers of players is also not scripted and influenced by players themselves. More possibilities for fun.
Thatâs why, I think, WPvP is an activity that will always have itâs playerbase, even without incentives, unlike scripted parts of the game.
Well⊠everything is artificial in a video game.
But again, there is a huge difference between scripted environment that artificially created for you to play through, and WPvP - a big open world sandbox where playerâs actions and their consequences are a content for other players and vice versa - this is as natural as something can be in a video game.
Not everyone, and I donât think âtheyâ are even a majority.
Yes, rewards are important. Itâs a MMORPG - rewards are the things that give character progression both in power and cosmetics, but it doesnât mean they have to be quick/free/non-enjoyable.
From what I read on these forums - players who donât want PvP and seek faster gratification are usually the ones who complain about War Mode, with something like âWPvP prevents me from doing questsâ or âThere is always a lot of enemies ganking and I cba to look for group/raidâ etc.
Itâs quite a huge group, not on the forums tho.
War Mode and WPvP is a LOT of FUN!
Btw, this words from Ionâs Polygon interview bring me interest and joy:
Mechagon and Nazjatar will both be endgame experiences that draw on the best elements of previous ⊠Nazjatar will be a little more typical, while Mechagon will be âwhat you might expect from a gnomish paradise,â ⊠He describes it as more sandbox-y, unpredictable, and akin to a playground.
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Itâs not a very good comparison. The proportion between reward and time spent in dungeons is straight forward; while in WPvP, you can be at spot for ages and still not being able to complete a quest and consequently not being able to receive a reward!
You may have fun as long as you can expect to get challenged, to be thrilled, to get excited, etc. Nothing like that seems to take place in current state of WPvP. Thatâs why I made my previous statement.
I understand there is a massive group of people who misunderstand PvP and they confuse WPvP with bonus they should have for granted. They complained a lot and then Blizzard created AOO quest only to support their concept, pulling a massive number of non pvpers who were not necessarily interested in PvP and WPvP at all. They would not ânaturallyâ be involved in PvP. Consequently, we saw 40+ raids. The whole concept of WM seems to be like that. Thatâs the artificial aspect of WM. It has hardly anything to do with the fact that word in video games is artificial. These are two different concepts!
Letâs see what future can bring to us.
How is it not a very good comparison, when itâs exactly on point to the core of game design in WoW, and you then compare it to a single out example of a bad playerâs choice for a camp spot in a huge open world, or even a decision to camp a spot instead of other options in the first place?
Players can make bad tactical decisions in any other part of the game, and it would take more time to get rewards from them. But non of that has anything to do with âWoW is a game thatâs built on incentives to do an activity.â and that not many players would do an activity if there is no intensives.
As Iâve said previously - there is a difference between scripted and unscripted. Challenges, thrill and excitement comes from different things, these are not scripted parts for you to consume in WPvP, they come only from interacting with other players, with what they do and what you do.
If you talk only about joining a 40 man raid and kill 40 vs 1 - thatâs very very small part of what actually is going on in WPvP. But it can be perceived as âthe only thingâ by those who are in War Mode only for rewards.
Have you tried to catch and loot a bounty with a 5 man group when that bounty is a part of a raid? Or catch a bounty whos flying from one FP to another by luring them into a trap? Or being a bounty and surviving without teleporting to the capital and without a raid protection, while trolling and denying hunters who want to claim it? Or go solo vs 2+ opponents with intent to get at least one of them before successfully getting away? Or start a gank to inspire retaliation and then back and forth 20+ vs 20+ action? Or troll Dazarâalor with a 5 or less group to get a 100+ kills while denying any ability to catch you? etc, and those are only the most obvious and popular choices.
All that happens in WPvP every day more that once per day, and itâs only a fraction of what you can do. Put your mind/creativity to it + what other players do around you + research items and how to use/abuse different terrain = almost limitless possibilities not only to find challenges, thrill and excitement, but also to create them yourself.
There is no predetermined challenges for you in WPvP, itâs a sandbox, a playground for you to create your own adventure with what you have and whatâs around you.
Try at least those above - challenges, thrill and excitement (if successful) are guaranteed.
I understand what you are saying, my view point is a bit more distanced that yours, different perspective so to say.
Many players, even those who enjoy WPvP just for the fun of it, are still doing it for rewards they can get - conquest, achievements, etc. Plus as with any game or mode - there suppose to be an entry point for an activity. For WPvP those entry points are usual scripted parts - quests, assaults (more quests), etc. But instead of being an actual content as they are in PvE, in WPvP - they are there to create points for potential conflicts and give some rewards for players participation.
Things like Call to Arms and AOO are not an âend-gameâ content for WPvP. Although many players confuse them for only thing that is there. They are designed only as an incentive to get players into WPvP. Itâs still a playerâs choice no matter why they opt-in in War Mode, no matter if they are PvPers or not, and playerâs choice is a natural thing just as consequences of that choice.
Itâs an unscripted environment, every player and their choices/actions in that environment is a content for other players.
If you are looking at it only through a prism of âitâs a non pvper they shouldnât be hereâ - ofc it wouldnât be natural to you, but only because you made it so. In the end, it doesnât really matter - there is a point to enter, player made a choice for whatever reason - it is natural.
Yeah!
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The guys who like the current state of WM are all without exception horrible players. Not a single exception.
Its a zerg mode⊠its for braindead ppl/zombies.
And no i dont struggle with it. I just see it as pointless from either side of the spectrum.
If i fight a guy 1v1 in a semi enjoyable setting there always needs to be 2-3 guys adding on to that fight âhelpingâ me.
I get it. Youre not strong so YOU need this to feel better than you actually are. But it removes any potential fun and engaging combat.
Die hard WM players are a bit like guys who place fake implants in their chest to pretend to be muscular. Or ppl who catfish other ppl with pictures of models.
Were you ganked too much? Still hurts?
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I am an alliance playerâŠhorde is a minority on my server group. Its literally impossible to get ganked here.
I could lay on the floor / afk in the middle of the road for 30 mins and come back alive nps.
I even remember you and how terrible you where in a random BG i was in. Look my account up and youll probs recognize my name. Youre proving my point. Ppl like you who struggle vs random BG players (you where doing terrible all 4-5 games i was with you) like the current state of WM.
yeah, looks legit! haha
Server groups doesnât matter in WM - shards, you should know that as a âgoodâ player you try to present yourself.
I also remember you, and how you finish every BG with 0 kills, numerous deaths and somewhere at the end of the damage, while flaming in chat and constantly going in some random direction to do your own thing. What point are you proving again? Weak insults with 0 substance because you canât say something that makes sense? Youâve succeeded!
So that ganking still hurts, ha?
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Youre making stuff up now. âŠand im not.
Im always topping dmg and killsâŠim a moonkin. Almost the same name. Still doesnt ring a bell? And even as mage, back in the day i was farming ppl including premades in random BGs or rated BGs and arena. Here u goâŠtypical BG as mage from me back in the day: https : / /imgur.com/6Z1LMA1
You where the one with the heavy negative KD ratio in the games i played in your random BG team.
Feel free to proof me otherwise. Join a game with me and see what happens.