Probably for the same reason he wanted to wait for Lor’themar and Sylvanas to be on the boat too before he made the stand official (as you remember from the Rebellion).
Not disagreeing here. It’s crap writing.
Well, the burden of proof is on you regarding that- Sure, maybe that could happen and you’d be right. All I know is that there’s been situations in the past where, when challenged to mak’gora as a Warchief, you must accept.
Yes, he confessed on it after pressed to do so. He didn’t, as you know, free willingly walk to Sylvanas after the deed was done and tell “btw I let the prisoner go”.
Abstaining from telling the truth is dishonesty. And he also has to be, as I said, honest about the consequences that his actions will have on the Horde- And his people, which is why I again, think he’d not done it because he values his own people over his own moral principles, as we see in both Warcrimes and “As out fathers before us” short story.
This basically doesn’t matter at all in the modern WoW story context where numbers and predictions from a situation being “incredibly dire” change very quickly from one extreme to another, since there is no consistency.
We already see that Orcish honour means nothing to her. Mak’gora is deeply entwined with that honour. From this we can pretty clearly assess that she’d dismiss the notion of a Mak’gora and isn’t a fan of anybody challenging her anyway as seen by imprisoning Baine and sending assassins after Saurfang.
The difference is he knew where they stood at that very late stage and knew they would help.
Ultimately Baine is more cautious than his dad and that is fine, he was the same during Garrosh’s wild ride as well and only acted when he was sure there was more support than just him and Vol’jin.
His dad going rage face and slapping Garrosh ultimately ended up in his death in the end while Garrosh’s plans continued unabated, despite being caught cheating (intentional or not). Clearly Mak’goras are not as good at settling these disputes as people pretend they are.
Lmao can someone make an edit of this? Frollo is Sylvanas, Esmeralda is the Horde and Quasimodo as Baine? The scene where he breaks free and saves Esmeralda before Frollo burns her.
Well to be fair as pointed out Cairne would have won against Garrosh had he not been poisoned. Mak’gora I’d say only really works for Orcs, Tauren and maybe Trolls. It is uncharacteristic for an elf to partake in that tradition, let alone Sylvanas.
Hey maybe poisons are allowed, I mean shamanism was all of a sudden when Thrall did it.
Honestly the most recent attempts at Mak’goras have been pretty bad for the tradition, since no one can seem to decide what is cheating and what is not. Nor is there clear consequences for it.
But, for the sake of the argument I assume it’s to do with something something “fairness” and something something “battle”.
Having or not having honor doesn’t transit to whether a Warchief can be swapped for or not. If somebody challenges you to Mak’gora, you have to accept the challenge…Or else? We don’t know that part either.
No, but they are good at getting the thing out of Order. Cairne’s death, while tragic, ended the tension between the orcs and the tauren (so much so that Garrosh even invited Tauren as his honorary guests into the city).
They are good at advancing plots- And I’m not saying Mak’gora is the only way, though it is the Horde way. I’m saying that I think he should have bided his time- Or challenged her, if he had an opportune moment.
Yeah, magic is allowed. The occasion where magic is actually used is a duel between (I believe?) an orcish shaman and a blood elf paladin/blood knight? It’s from a comic.
Eeeh I disagree with that. Baine was the one that ultimately ended that tension since he decided to pick the spare option rather than the rip in two option his AU did.
I really need to get this out of my system, nobody’s talking about it.
If the hecking mounts can now water-walk, why do DKs and Shamans still need their once USEFUL and FANTASY-ORIENTED water-walking spell?
I understand the water insect is boring, but they could’ve at least specified if this mount enhancement is only going to work in BFA zones or everywhere else. Because if the latter is the case, I am speechless.
My defence of Baine - reposted from my post on another thread and slightly improved:
When Cairne found himself under the same dilemma, he was dealing with a less deranged - at the time - and more open Warchief. Garrosh - at the time - respected honor and was more likely to deal with problems openly and honestly. Indeed, when he finds out that his victory against Cairne was the result of poison and that it was not fair, he was enraged.
Cairne and Hellscream fought in a mak’gora, which means a duel of honor. I have my sincere doubts that Sylvanas would accept, because why would she? She has demonstrated that she stretches her authority to the max. In her own words, honor means nothing to a corpse, and considering she has managed to get herself killed three times, I think the title of corpse is more than appropriate.
Baine should also be aware of the possibility, that Sylvanas wouldn’t play fair if she accepted. After all, he certainly wouldn’t have forgotten how his father died - an event that could make him be very paranoid about poison, and how Baine might face a similar fate, especially considering you are dealing with a less honest Warchief than back then.
So what is the use of challenging her, when he knows she is unhinged and has no limits? She has just demonstrated that she will use any dark tricks to get what she wants (using Derek to murder his family - and just about everything else she has done in the war).
You can argue that what Baine did is shady, but it would have brought him greater dishonor to let the plan run its course. It was better for him to act, than to let something dishonorable take place and be passive and in support of this warfare that he hates. I argue that this saves him honor.
Garrosh was definitely at a disadvantage because the playing field wasn’t even. Thrall wore armor and the power scaling also isn’t exactly right. In MoP we supposedly fight him at an equal level just wielding Xal’atoh until he becomes Chad, yet against Thrall he’s incapacitated instantly when he used the elements.
Traditionally Mak’gora was always a bout of physical combat. Weird that they became more lenient with this.
So the rules of each fight are determined by the combatants. We see in the comics a mak’gora between a shaman and a paladin, and they allowed magic.
Thrall and Garrosh allowed magic, and that specific mak’gora was indefinitely put on hold until Thrall re-opened the challenge, citing they finish what they started. Thrall didn’t cheat as they went with the rules of the previous Mak’gora unless new ones were issued, of which we have no proof they ever did.
Given how Garrosh reacted to the news of his axe being poisoned behind his back, we can determine that poison wasn’t part of the allowed rules.
Bonus lore bit: According to the same novel in which Cairne dies, it’s explained that dwarves eat specially cultivated soil to counter poisons because certain soils neutralize them in the stomach.