[SPOILERS] The Fate of Sylvanas in BFA

Fwiw I have no idea who this YouTuber is and it’s a conclusion I largely arrived at myself. I binged through the SC1 and 2 campaigns a few months ago which gave me the idea and it’s not hard to imagine Blizzard pulling a Kerrigan with Sylvanas. We’re already midway through the final acts of Brood War, where everyone is turning on the Queen of Blades- I mean the Banshee Queen, give it a few patches and we’ll be reading about a void/light hybrid race that only Sylvanas can stop off a cave painting.

Reusing story structure is fine but that doesn’t stop me spotting a lot of similar themes and story beats and be critical of the story because of it. People meme on the corruption villains thing for a reason.

Honestly, from observation on previous Blizzard stories, particuarly BfA, we should expect the most obvious, like stupidly obvious, and then watch how they try to write it as a big shocking reveal/twist.

I think it’s going to be revealed that Sylvanas has worked with Azshara/N’zoth all along because reasons, and will gloat at the Player character’s faces what fools we were for not seeing it/playing along, etc etc.

Mainly because that’s how BfA has been so far. The most predictable, but also dullest option, so therefore people want to overlook it in favour of something more complex.

Edit: As for Blizzard’s comment on that they “wont do a Garrosh 2.0”, they will either probably justify it with that “Oh, but Sylvanas -knew- all along this was bad, there was no influence or corruption like Garrosh.” Or that they simply ignored that since its not the first time they say something, but do something diffrent.

Dream kill/survive list for BFA:

Sylvanas: dead
Thrall: dead
Baine: dead
Saurfang: dead
Anduin: dead
Jaina: dead
Tyrande: dead
Lor’themar: dead
Velen: alive and sipping on margaritas at the beach

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Hmm I almost agree with you Bearan. But I think Velen should get assassinated by Krokul who he abandoned again on Argus after they find a portal to azeroth or something.

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I think you should be assassinated.

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Tbh, both the broken guy(w/e his name was) and Velen were dummies.

“Velen, flee, I’ll stay behind!”

“…:Why did you leave us, reeee!”

Despite seeing the conflicted nature of the broken left behind, and now having basically doomed Argus completly by both destroying it’s world soul and crippling the Legion, he leaves them behind again

:frowning_face:

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Maybe she is just a tool really… for someone or something,
Who knows :female_detective:
Awh come on leave poor ol’ Velen alone. :mage:
He is a hipster i am sure he is doing what he can .

I dislike this part so much. I feel like Blizzard isn’t actually trying to write a cohesive and well written story that they want to tell, it’s just too obvious that they’re trying to appease the playerbase and they don’t have the courage to ever go against the wishes of the community even though it’s sometimes warranted.

And what Sylvanas has done is sooooo much worse than anything Garrosh did. Blizzard’s writing has been awful as of late, it was never amazing to begin with but right now it’s actually fanfiction tier.

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I don’t know, I think many of AD will agree with me that Garrosh is our Waifu, it’s either him, Garithos or Rommath.

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They already made Illidan a weird fanfiction character in Legion with Xe’ra telling us about oh so great he was. Before he was cohesive character in his Novel… But then turned him into god savior complex 100%.

In BfA it’s Jaina became Tumblrina bad writing that is awfully reminding of how Steven Universe villains are handled (In short, villains have trauma thus we’re supposed to relate despise them wiping the universe of anything that isn’t under their rule or like them.)
Sylvanas is just Kerrigan 2.0 and we can see how her arch will end from a mile away screaming “Azeroth, is freeeeee!”.
Tyrande still gets the short end of the stick…

Hey Blizzard… I thought you loved strong Women. Why is your depiction of strong Women so :poop: then?

Back to the villain topic… WoD, aside from Grommash, had so much better villains than BfA. Mar’gok the Gorian Imperator had a short story to himself, Iskar could be understood in the speech bubbles we got as we got the blessing of Terrok and not him since he wanted to indulge in old hatred while Ishaal and Reshaad wanted progress. Ner’zhul driven to break old traditions to ensure the survival of his clan (even though his HC dungeon death was a let down.).

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Not to delve too far into that whole topic but i feel like modern media is very afraid to write nuanced female characters because they’re not allowed to be flawed, they are supposed to be perfect the way they are and that’s dishonest and doesn’t work that well because nobody is perfect. We’re all flawed and we can all do things to better ourselves no matter who we are.

I like George R.R Martin’s perspective on this. A quote of his i like is when he was asked how he is able to write believable female characters, his answer was simply something a long the lines of women are more like us (men, that is) than unlike us which i feel is very true because men and women are both people and we’re not so different in reality. A character’s gender should never be a cornerstone of their personality if you ask me, and you can’t be afraid to write flawed characters.

Blizzard also has a very hard time writing nuanced characters, period. Atleast nowadays. Most of their “fan-favorites” and famous characters are extremely one-dimensional.

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Me solving the problem with all these characters.

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You just summed it up in this sentence.
People often conflate it with having plot armor. We know all main protagonists have plot armor that’s not a problem really. But having plot armor and being a perfect/boring character are different.

That problems goes back since… I think since WotLK IMHO.
You can sum up modern WoW toons with a single sentence. Let’s start from BfA.

Jaina : I’m sad, please feel bad for me.
Saurfang : My Honuuur!!! (Like Odyn kept talking about bloody Valor)
Sylvanas : I’m edgy and genocidal.
Anduin : I’m the second coming of Jesus in WoW since Thrall.
Rastakhan : Haha it’s good to be King! (No really, he’s prop and not a real character.)
Talanji : I love my people teehehe.

Legion.
Illidan : I’m an edgelord but also Jesus.
Khadgar : I’m a living meme.
Velen : I’m nuanced and conflicted (I mean this one.).
Turalyon : I’m just a Light Space Marine and also Moral Jesus.
Alleria : Big tiddy GF of the human who likes goth things.
Magni : I’m a one trick pony.

Cba to do the other expansions.

Only issue I have with this is not the quote itself, but George R.R Martin writes women really creepily/poorly as well. -Alot- of filler in the Song of fire and ice books is just really perverse and grisly details for the sake of being grisly, like weird rape scenes or the like 5 pages long -deeply- elaborated thoughts of a wolf wanting to bite a woman’s chest and drink from it etc. (In book 5)

Oh yeah i won’t deny there’s some strange stuff in there but i think in general, the philosophy behind the quote is sound. The statement stands on it’s own two legs so to speak.

Edit: Deleted the first draft because i accidentally replied to the main thread and not the individual that my response was made for

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Oh yeah, definatly. Also how annoying is it that you no longer can just instantly delete your own misstakes but have to wait 24 hours minimum :angry:

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Haha yeah! I’ve not really been on the forums for some time, i quit playing BFA a few weeks/a month or so after launch in 2018 and after that i just completely detached myself from all things Blizzard for almost a year so i just found out about the forum changes.

All in all though, i gotta say i kind of like the new forums quite a lot. It’s way easier to keep track of your posts and the notifications are really useful.

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A similar approach was used in the first Alien movie.

Ripley’s gender was never once predetermined or stated in the script, they tried out both male and female actors and ended up settling on a woman.

I know one of my friends rather dislikes WoW’s female characters despite normally being an advocate for female representation in games.

Their words along the lines of “Every single female character is either: A) An extremely minor character. B) Completely crazy and/or evil. C) Flawed to the point of needing a big strong man to tell them what to do or D) Are clung to the side of said man.”

And to be honest, I can kinda see where he’s coming from.

Sylvanas is evil, Jaina had her crazy period and only just mellowed out but still has tons of issues, Tyrande… Laughs, Azshara is evil, Chromie is comic relief, Aggra literally was invented solely to be a baby maker for Thrall and nothing else…

That’s not to say there are only bad female characters but the few that I have no complaints with are very minor and are barely mentioned, if at all for many expansions at a time.

Magatha is a great villain, very realistic, very sound motives, actually got some good plans in there. But then she vanished after Cata and shows up in Legion and does… nothing? Nadda. Zilch. What was the point of her even showing up? I wanted to see her prod Baine until he snapped or something but nah she just sat in the Shaman hall.

Moira was pretty great whenever she showed up. Again, not exactly a pure good character but in recent events she’s had the interests of the Dwarves as a whole in mind and even the Alliance. That’s good progress from when she pseudo-kidnapped Anduin and tried to seize power. But since Legion… again, nadda. And she had nadda from Cata to Legion.

And so on. If I spent more time I could probably think of more. But it’s quite irritating that all the good ones get shunted aside in front of the cover girls who have more enough narrative and characterization issues that I could literally sit and write an essay on each of them and hand it in as part of a writing course. Maybe the “good” ones are just spared from the pens of the lead writers who do… unspeakable things because they’re more focused on cool set pieces rather than continuity or common sense.

But on the other hand the same can be said for male characters tbh, I’ll happily pick Varian, Baine and others apart.

My #1 fear is that they’ll be tapping their heads trying to think of a random tauren shaman boss for a dungeon, then remember Magatha exists and drop her in it. I’ll be very upset if they ever just killed her off, she’s straight up the most realistic, grounded and probably best villain the setting has right now.

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That’s the main female cast in WoW. And btw I’m not taking pleasure in saying and noticing this… I hate bad writen character period, regardless of sex.

Effing laughed at this :rofl:.

Don’t you dare diss Moira. She’s bae, best Queen I’d follow to death for she has an interestinf arch. I could see her or her son actually be a new Queen/King for all the dwarves.
For Magatha however, she’s cool too but definitely is being Set up to be a future loot piñata instead of the more ruthless and proactive Tauren leader we could use to contrast Baine (Aka Cairne’s clone) vision of the Horde and the world.