STOP designing the game for RWF playes - Complex tier set bonuses for 10.1

All of what you described above is not in place because of pro gamers though.

Catalyst does not open sooner for raids to have some relevance in the first few weeks of the expansion. I may not agree with this decision, but it is what it is.

Valor is capped for the reason to prevent too much of an itemlevel gap to form between those who have a lot of time to play, and those who have little time to play. It helps contain the itemlevel gaps between the two groups, so the game does not turn into “spend 20 hours a day doing M+ or you fall miles behind” rushfest.

Personal loot was mainly taken away because it dis-incentivises social interractions and communication in raids, and propagates the thought that the loot that drops is “your’s”, which it isn’t.

Most content does not release overtuned, and the ones who do stay like so because Blizzard expects the power inflation from itemlevels to help those that struggle to overcome specific bosses with brute-force methods. When that does not help is when they start massive nerfing content (like how they just massive nerfed Razsageth) which was something they kept doing on a pattern that is pretty predictable.

Meta shake-ups do not happen because of the way gearing works. If someone already invested their time in building a character only for it to get nerfed halfway through the tier is going to do more harm than good. And no, the meta is enforced by the community, and up until the breaking point (which is 20s right now) is not needed. Classes are pretty close to each other currently, with only a few outliers having issues in specific departments.

In every type of game it is normal that you balance a class based on what professional players can do with them, as they are the ones who can push a spec’s capabilities to the limits, and see what balancing issues a spec may have. What Blizzard is failing to do is to make classes easy to pick up, which these days is important because people do not bother/want to/can’t get the basics out of their specs. For cases like these it helps if the class is easy to get into as it leaves less players frustrated.

Feral was a perfect example of this from Legion, where Blizzard went out of their way to rework how their bleed snapshotting works, making the spec much easier to play (while also nerfing it slightly as a result). This nerf was only really noticeable for those who were playing the spec at a very high level however.

Difficulty does not mean the same for everyone, keep that in mind. A lot of people here complained about Razsageth being much harder than Jailer, but being one who progressed on both of them on heroic level I can say with certainty that Jailer, pre-nerf, was much, much harder than Razsageth was pre-nerf. The Jailer had less strict DPS requirements, but harder mechanics that had to be respected, while Razsageth’s mechanics are more forgiving, but in exchange the HPS and DPS requirements are tighter.

Regardless, people will always scream that something is overtuned if they cannot just roll over it, which they could do with every other previous boss in the tier, with the exception of Diurna and maybe Dathea.

Sorry, blonde moment, but what is RWF?

race to world first, basically raiding esports stuff.

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RAID % guilds got AOTC 4 weeks in
The Nighthold 27.91 %
Tomb of Sarg 21.81 %
Antorus THE SUCCESFUL RAID 36.73 %!!!
Uldir 18.34 %
BDA 20.88 %
Eternal Palace 28.38 %
Nyalotha 31.83 %
Castle Nathria 11.06 %
Sylv Raid 13.69 %
Shadowlands final fail raid 4 !!!%
vault of incarn 12.1 %

I don´t think I have ever seen someone say that Vault is harder than Jailor. Although it would not surprise me if someone were to make the claim. If anyone ever makes that sort of clown claim show them these numbers.

Both raids are however still significantly harder comparatively to when WoW was significantly more successful (Legion).

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I’m not seeing the complexity myself

Puny I am sorry, but this a nonsense argument and you know it.

This would be like me creating a thread about how the talent trees have made rotations too complex, a BM hunter then comes along and goes, uhm, but MY rotation is pretty easy, so u are wrong Zhujiang.

Yes They are harder and harder

Who remembers that I have spent 7 hours of each bosses wipe in Nyalotha LFR?

Literally the worst raid tier lol

and they should remove LFR! OMG, 5 hours of wipe Opulence in LFR lol

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We can disagree but my reply is genuine. I do not see the complexity in them.

Not all specs are going to play the same ofc. Nor am I suggesting they do. I do not agree with your sentiment that the tier bonuses on the whole are complex.

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But don’t you get Asmon’s genius speaking the actual truth !!!

Whats complex about that?

HS and BB each get a 20% buff and a 10% chance to proc vampiric blood. Now with 4p Vampiric blood also gives you 10% str and the buff is 5sec long wiith HS and BB extending it.

It doesnt matter for you whether its called Vampiric Bloor or Vampiric Strength. Its only in the system that way because they couldnt alter the base effect properly in the system.

Same here.

2P: Generic DPS increase for Rampage.

4P: Either you now press Bloodthirst after every Rampage (and potentially even run the deft experience/annihilator build) if you can or you do it after every fourth at the very latest dependent on how the proc/buff/stack finally works in the end.

Same.

2: SS deals more damage and now gives CDR on Stand and during stand you deal more dmg/have more CDR and you dont even have to pay attention to it. Not that complex.

4: If Stand ended your SS now deals AoE cleave for 10seconds and you get 5% less damage taken. Again, not that complex.

Like those 3 Tier sets arent really complex.

Something like Ferals getting a budget rng Honour amongst Thieves proc is more complex especially since it can catch you off guard.

Or the Resto druid 4p that is has its effect affected by convoke which isnt noted in the tier set bonus but only in a dev note.

Why, this is a very decent bonus. You get a hefty amount on your fillers and even get to proc a class CD regularly, I love these :smile:

The 4pc is a cherry on top, simply.

This isn’t too disruptive either to me, as I use Shieldslam a lot in all content. If anything, I’m happier I can use even more CD’s, not mentioning the even higher block uptime. Warriors are squishy without it.

I do agree with this however, at least for certain casters. Both Affli and Shadow have a million buttons to press.

Multiple specs get some help with this though, like Ret gaining a full rework and both boomies and kittens’ rotations will be simplified (say, cats don’t even need to use Thrash and will get to apply it with other spells, much like Prot does so with Rend being applied through Thunderclaps).

The class designers of Shadow or Aff could learn from this. Not only they need to keep dots up for damage, what’s worse is you can’t even do a proper rotation without them. And the only mass dot abilities for these classes are Cataclysm (Destro), or that shadow blast. Both on half a min CD, and dots are shorter - so if you mess up the timing, you’re have to manually apply dots. And then dump insanity/shards, pop CDs, use defensives, move away from the 500th swirly…

They are just an abomination of specs. I have a reason to be Holy only - I’d only use Shadow for raids as ST is just plain better and I really hate raid healing.

Anyways… the tier bonuses are very nice imo.

What’s a total pain are the bloated rotations of mainly ranged specs. The amount of spells should be clearly cut in half, and their effects could be passives. Or, there could be a passive way to activate CDs, like Enh can do with Ascendance.

As whole legion wasn’t bad, but it wasn’t the second coming of jesus either.

It didn’t tho. Peak was between wrath-cata. Legion managed to get back most of those who left in wod, but never suppassed the 12m peak.

You talk about these like they’re a good thing. Pre Legion we had: actual legendary weapons with a lot of lore significance and not welfare legendaries; we had deterministic gear in both pvp and pve and not rng rolls and cuckforging.
Now we have ffxiv players tell us how good is their gearing system their game stole from wow.

Artifact power pre 9.2 was worse than torghast. The grind was long and slow and basically affected your class as a whole.

No? tier sets are borrowed power indeed, but are in no way comparable to something like artifact power and azerite.

My man, legion was good for many reasons but gameplay wasn’t one of them lol. If you’re a legion baby and have fond memories of it ok, but don’t act like it was peak class design.

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There was not limitless power growth. There was just more than most people played through, but it was content - not merely a grind.

XP does bear some semblance to Artifact Power, but not to Azerite Power, for XP rewards you for all activities, ideally in equal measure. Furthermore, AP unlocks powers so you can tune up the challenges you already do, whereas XP in Classic unlocks powers so you can use it to further your exploration. A level is not the reward in Classic’s XP system - the zone which your level unlocks is.

It does have these things. But none of these things are RNG legendaries. The strongest gear is never a world drop - and you are unlikely to have many of them at once as their power vanes by the time you’d have many. Not until you raid will you have many epic items, and those are far less random.

It is true that you can earn a lot of gold in Classic from selling random, lucky items. Which never happens in Dragonflight of course, except for that 1 million Elemental Lariat recipe I sold a few weeks ago.

It is not hard to understand, but it also fails to address what I said - because you did not understand what I said.

You seem to believe that the game may have no opportunity for unique mechanics or character augmentation outside of the talent tree because of the talent tree - and I disagree with this.

I don’t want us to go back to 7 talents and 5 burrowed power systems either, of course, but to complain about 4 items that, all together, add the complexity of 2 talent points on top of the existing 61 talent points strikes me as… interesting, at least from someone who suggests Azerite or Artifact Power, which would add dozens of these things on top of the existing 61. Far more than these set bonuses ever could.

You speak very confidently, but are you sure you really know what you want? You seem a little confused. You’re not adding the pieces of your own arguments up - you are not relating them to each other, cross-referencing them to see if they would make a cohesive gameplay experience.

I like the next fury set bonus more than the current one, i don’t understand why you think it’s made for RWF players.

Look at the unholy dk tier set… By the time you manage to get the buff, mobs already died in M+, Aww, buff ran out by the time you need it for next mob… Brilliant idea -.- . Oh but you get it in raids, yup, Hero/lust start, aww sorry dk, your buff kicks in after hero ran out… doh. As for Pvp… Pure lol. Hi Mr enemy could you please stay still and let me hit you x times before I gets my buff from set. Thanks awfully, do try not to global me first -.-

They want you to believe they’re not in control but the game has been taken over by limit and echo!! Don’t you know it? Everybody knows that!!!

Classes are not complex, tier sets bonuses are mostly dumb.

I’m at the point where tier sets to me are just a mean to get invited to groups.

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Reading the changes-to-come that you posted and i fail to realize whats wrong with them.

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What?
Vile Taint/Phantom Singularity = Main rotation
Demonbolt = Main rotation
Grimoire: Felguard = Main rotation
You almost always take those talents. Destruction is the only outlier with Channel Demonfire