Because nothing is wrong with em
You are talking about an entirely different topic than OP.
He said they are complex. You say UH is badly designed. Two very different things.
Btw I agree with you, some of them are crap, or simply too weak, or too specific for certain scenarios like purely ST or AoE focused.
I donât like mine either, I feel like retri set is stupid. But not âtoo complexâ like what OP moaned about xd
I hope some of the sets will go through a few more iterations before they go live.
For the op, if a Class has more than 1 button in its rotation then itâs too hard and casual unfriendly!!
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I have seen quite a few posts complaining about how Razsageth is hard, and that Blizzard said they arenât going to make another roughly tuned boss like the Jailer. They kind of imply that for them Razsageth is harder than the Jailer, which is true from a numerical standpoint, as you do need to meet DPS and HPS thresholds in order to get through the roughest phases of the fight (P2 shield phases and the double elementals in the intermission that follows).
From a mechanic standpoint the boss is more forgiving, though I personally would not make the add/puddle bomb overlap in phase 1 that rough, as in even itemlevel it means a class like hunter suffers a lot due to their low amount of defensive cooldowns for that phase. Otherwise the shield is telegraphed well enough to prepare you for it (it happens at pre-determined periods of the fight) and the only real mechanic that can wipe your group there are people getting hit by the breath ability in P1, P2 and P3.
I do not necessarily agree that the low percentage necessarily comes from the difficulty of the raid. Sanctum was a very lenient and simple raid tier, especially Sylvanas whoâs only real difficulty was the long time of it, yet the participation was only a little higher compared to vault.
This statistic also distorts the statistics somewhat, as it only shows those who got AOTC in the first 4 weeks, and it only shows guilds who actually killed the last boss. My personal opinion is that if you get halfway through a tier on mythic, you are a mythic raiding guild, and the same goes for heroic.
There are many reasons these days that pushes raiding numbers down, the most prominent one is the existence of M+ and crafted gear. Raiding is still a big time commitment for many, and those who can afford to participate are less inclined to do so as M+ is easier to get into, more lucrative with gear (double so since you can tailor your group around drops to maximize your chances) and currently it is the best way to get easily attainable high ilvl gear through the crafting system.
Unless you are actually delving into mythic there is little point to raid, as a 16 already gives you early mythic ilvl gear, you can upgrade everything to 411 (higher than most heroic drops) and you can upgrade your crafter gear to mid mythic itemlevel. With those in mind why would you go into a raid unless you like big group content? For a ring that drops from the first boss (easily puggable) or for trinkets that have viable M+ alternatives that you can actively farm for?
Raids, from a loot perspective, arenât enticing enough for most to get into it. That on top of the systems that Blizzard implemented in the past (personal loot, which as its name implies makes you feel like the loot belongs to you), Titanforging (which caused a lot of the playerbase to get into a steady grind for that small chance of winning the slot machine), AP grind (that while gave casuals something to work for it was pushing raiders harder on the treadmill).
Wow used to be âfinish your character and then level an altâ which Blizzard went away from from Legion on, and while in Legion it wasnât as bad repeating the same formula for 2 following expansions burned out many. BFA was praised for having a lot to do, which was fine from a playerâs perspective who was only playing a single character. Those who wanted to do alts had to go through the AP grind (to the catch-up point), through the essence grind (up until the last season) and then corruption grind in S4 (for there was a really noticeable gap between a player who had the right corruptions, and someone who did not).
Keep in mind, that one possible reason why Blizzard begin changing on their policy because this gameplay loop started losing their core playerbase, which are primarily raiders, as they are the ones who stay through content droughts. When you get to the point that you start losing these players you know that you need the system changed, which they are working on now, hence why this expansion so far does not have infinite grind, and more room for people to play alts.
I personally feel raiding would be more enjoyable if the raid size would get another squish down to perhaps 15 or even 10, and who knows, maybe with the upcoming upgrading system we will see more raid participation, though I personally doubt so unless they separate the gearing between the two PvE systems, because as it stands now the end game for most players is being choked by a game mode that is easier to get into, and is potentially more rewarding.
Reducing the difficulty after that can be a good and viable option. Make it so that heroic raids can be beaten in heroic gear with more ease, so players are more inclined to not feel like they need to massively overgear the content in order to do it. Currently this is an issue because up from Legion on Blizzard showered us with borrowed power that was largely passive, that helped players overcome challenges that they otherwise would not be able to. Now that was toned back, and instead these powers were built into the talent tree.
So you are left with players who suddenly do not have the passive aid they had from these powers, as they actually have to utilize their talent tree instead, and if the game taught me anything about people is that if you encourage them to improve they instead quit as they do not want to feel that invested in a theme park-type game. They need to revamp the leveling experience for that entirely so players can learn such basics as rotation and cooldown usage (as currently both outworld leveling content and normal/heroic dungeons are a piss poor way of doing so). Most enemies die to a fart, which leaves most thinking that you take big burst abilities and you will be fine. As soon as they enter into content where things do not die into a few button presses you have the player left dumbfounded, as the tactic they used before does not bring them the results they got in leveling dungeons.
As a last note concerning difficulty: I personally feel that the overall difficulty of the raids have not ramped up. While we had spikes Iâd argue that a bossfight like Helya (when currrent), KilâJaeden (when current) or even Azshara (when current) are not on the same level. Azshara in particular was a somewhat tougher cookie compared to Jaina due to the phase transition decrees and everything else that happened in that encounter (Add burst phases, line of sights, soaking the runes on the floor, interracting with the console). Yet EPâs full clear time was better than BoDâs.
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Wait Iâm confused. Are the tier bonuses you listed supposed to be examples of overly complex tier bonuses?
Yes they are!! Donât you understand that tracking a strength buff is complex??? :x
This troll contuinues to post ridiculous nonsense. Youâre just bad at the game and your opinion should be disregaraded wherever encountered.
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I love how in every post you continue posting these statistics which are 99% innacurate and no one apart from you cares about them.
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Cute how you post from a classic character where you rotation is 2 buttons. Tell us more
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personally I donât really care where the power level of tier sets land on the power scale. I never feel disadvantaged for not getting my 2pc 4pc bonus. still the acquisition is very slow.
all in all I am winning in the transmog game, I am both a Spriest and rogue main and I get my Paladin looking cloth armor and Master Shredder from TMNT respectively.
That is completely wrong. Sepulcher race lasted an abnormaly long time and literally no on participating enjoyed it.
Am I trolling? I am asking a genuinely important question, a question that does not receive the attention it deserves. Because at the moment the top players and their content-creating acolytes seem to be focused entirely on M+ affixes, which is their current WoW scapegoat. Instead, in my opinion we should focus on added complexity in general, which includes the current talent tree which has had disastrous consequences by greatly increasing the skill-gap and complexity in the game. This added complexity turns people off the game. Most people do not have an MMO mouse, they don´t want to spend an entire day creating new bindings and macros. This is a barrier to entry to new and returning players.
Having new and returning players who are not exactly comfortable with the game suddenly having to adjust to a different rotation and possibly differnt abilties once they reach 4-tier is adding insult to injury. Telling these players to git gud or reroll BM hunter isn´t the solution. The game needs to be much much simpler.
Look at these threads on the US boards regarding button bloat in WoW:
And now these button-bloat issues are being exacerbated by tier sets adding additional complexity, as I prove below complexity is being added, this is not up for debate.
Don´t get me wrong, I know why the gatekeeping-squad on these forums are attracted to button bloat, it helps them feel superior to the filthy AFK mountfarmering casuals and even their poorly performing Mythic guild mates. Even back in Legion post-prune there was enough complexity in rotations that you would outperform worse team mates on the DPS meters, but it is never enough for these people, they don´t just want to perform better, they want to crush their competition. It is all about ego for these gatekeepers, they gotta be the KINGS of the afk-mountfarming and Pokemon MMO.
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My entire thesis is basically that the game is already too complicated, and that therefore any added complexity should be avoided. The reason for this is obvious, when the game gets too complex, it makes the game less appealing for the masses. Fewer players is bad for the game.
In this thread I claim the tier sets of 10.1 add aditional complexity to the game, those quoted seem not to agree or not able to see how complexity is added.
First, the question is very very simple. Do the sets add complexity? Yes or no? If they do add any complexity then I am correct. We are not debating how much complexity these sets are adding, we are debating whether or not they add complexity to an already bloated game. Well let us ask a class discord mod. This is what a Warrior mod wrote regarding the fury tier set:
The 4p looks insanely strong. +100% BT is almost equal to Execute, +200% damage is 30% stronger, while automatically critting (guaranteeing Cold Steel, Hot Blood), and generating up to 20 rage per cast! Combine that with the current feedback loop of Berserkerâs Torment, Anger Management, Onslaught, and Anger Management should result in even more Rampage use (and 4p procs) than we get already! Reckless Abandon is also a consideration, just to allow more frequent Bloodthirst(bath) use, but weakens that feedback loop dramatically. The real question is exactly how the 4p will work. The way it reads, each of Rampageâs four strikes can trigger a stack, allowing up to 4 stacks per Rampage cast if all of them were to crit. - If each hit can trigger the effect, it will almost certainly enforce a BT heavy playstyle - perhaps including Deft Experience or even full Annihilator. This seems the most likely implementation. - If you can only gain one stack per Rampage, then the bonus is still strong, but far less gameplay defining - most likely sticking with the same RB focused playstyle, only weaving in BT at 4 stacks. Initial Impression :
A+ since itâs potentially very strong and gameplay defining, encouraging the use of some interesting talent builds and a lot of new rotational synergy.
The very simple answer to my rhetorical question is yes, having 4 pieces of the fury warrior set does add complexity to the game, by changing the optimal way you play a fury Warrior / talents after you attain the set. You can see the current rotation, talents and abilities for current fury warrior below if you want to make your own comparison between the status quo and the theoretical playstyle with 10.1 tier sets.
I am right, additional complexity is being added to the game. This isn´t up for discussion.
This is the elitist gatekeeping clown attitude that is killing the game. Just look at this Dorito-G8m3R logic.
No wonder raiding is a complete failure with no participation being outdone by a 15 year old Classic WoW with 1 button ´´rotations´´.
Itâs not that complex to begin with, and these set bonuses adds no amount of extra complexity to it.
Then go and play classic if thatâs what you enjoy, and stop demanding the game to be tailored around your skill level.
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Your argument had some merit in BFA and SL with layers of systems upon layers of systems. Azerite Traits on Essenses with corruptions. Even the SL legendaries on Conduits with Soulbinds et al.
But set bonuses written out in plain English right there?
And to get them you need to be doing the hardest content in the game and so probably understand how to play your class pretty well.
I wonât be getting them as I donât raid. I had a 2 piece bonus in Zerith Mortis thanks to the Catalyst but I havenât really looked at the current system for that os donât know how easy it is to get but probably not easy enough for my low intensity gaming style.
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Which is a weird thesis because added complexity brings variety whereas baseline complexity doesnât. Thatâs fine - somethings vary and some things stay the same. A mix of familiarity and novelty is the spice of life. There needs to be a balance between the two. We canât just run around removing every mechanic and interesting item because of the talent tree. That sounds really boring.
I just completely disagree with your approach to solving the diagnosis here. Completely.
Wrong. Weâre just arguing itâs not good to remove all complexity except the talent tree.
And you agree, by the way, ironically. You just donât realise you do. xD
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If I have to pick between a tier set that according to what you yourself quoted âencourages the use of interesting builds and a lot of new rotational syngeryâ, or a tier set that increases auto attack damage because we canât have anything that could potentially shake things up Iâd go for the former every time.
Honestly I think for the people that are so pressed that a tier set bonus encourages certain builds and donât want to change their talents to optimise around it, they wonât play at a level where it will matter anyway.
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Raiding is failure mainly becouse of m+ existence and becouse, atlest what i have asked others, people no longer find fun constant seasonal gear resets where Blizzard wipes their progression each new patch. You can hardly motivate players to do something like raiding when they know in next 6 months everything they did will be erased.