Asmongold asked for this to happen !
Gear is reseting from tier to tier since WOTLK
Raiding is a failure because it is old no iteration happened for raiding over the years
and m+ is simply more time efficient and will give you same feel of progression as raid
and another one that was scraped from the game few years back and people didnât like it was that 10 man raiding
m+ is giving you that feel of me and my dudes playing together no need for another 5 nooobs to be playing with us kind of gameplay
Thatâs EliasâŚjust save your energy!
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They wonât stop because Blizzard leaders are sweaty tryhards trying to be bros with other sweaty tryhards.
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This is bad bonus for protection. Each update is to nerf warrior and buff other classes especially warlocks. This is just game of warlocks, as a forced prot warrior i guess i ll just stop playing after this update. I dont remember using last stand in df s1, it is just pointless skill, why do you need id if you rotate defensives correctly, it is just another nerf for warrior class as usual.
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Thats what sets do, add synergy to existing abilities. Its been like that since thr base game sets. Removing that frels bad. Thry did once in Legion(?).
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this is not entirely true, problem is that the game should be designed something like thist.
normal dungeon â heroic dungeon â normal raid â heroic raid > mythic raid
but due to us having Mythic dungeons and Mythic + dungeons the progress has shifted a lot.
so now it is more or less, normal dugeon for leveling â heroic dungeon for some loot to get ilvl up â mythic dugeon â mythic plus â heroic raids, normal raids gets shafted a lot and is only used to get some minor loot, becuse you get so much better loot from Mythic dungeons, but there is a big one, you only get a lot of loot from Mythic dungeons if you have a lot of time on your hands, and if you play right class or spec, this meens people enter Heroic dungeons more or less whit gear that is to high already, or to low, what again meens heroic raids become overtuned or even undertuned, all depending on how much time you have on your hands.
this would not be a problem, if people in the game where not extreamly demanding on who they take to what, as long as that player is performing as they should and geard enough, but this is not the case, everyone looks at what you can bring what spec you play, even if it is none relevant for 90% of the game.
this literaly changes it so many players reroll to a fotm class, whom they acutaly have no clue how to play, but gets invited to raids and dungeons more often even if they are literaly bad at that class. specialy in pug situations.
though I do aggree that most of the time raid bosses are ok tuned, exept some that is extreamly overtuned, and theese should be nerfed way faster, and not a month later, but days later when people start to struggle on it, becuse even if a heroic raid is doable is lets say normal raid gear, this is not true for all classes at all, though this is a class tuning problem, but 5 first heroic raid bosses should be doable in normal raid gear, and most of the time they are, exept again some, for example Anduin what was way overtuned and that other boss I cant rember the name of whit 4 legs.
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It depends on what level of m+ you are, able to do. There are a lot of supplementary gearing method in the game right now, so while one can go through the normal dungeon>heroic dungeon>mythic dungeon route if they delvecin evety other sort of content they will already overgear these dungeons.
Some even pass on all of this and just head into +2s as the game encourages this now with the removal of valor cap later down the line. Non-m+ dungeons are segregared to be the leveling/weekly quest completion territory now, and be an outlet for those who want to do a minimal amount of group content. It is not a good learning ground for most however, as everything dies so fast you learn nothing of mechanics or of your own classâ capabilities.
Going back to my first point, if you can do keys over 16 you basically skip over both normal and the majority of heroic as well. The longer the tier goes the less useful heroic is for newcomers as well, since you have valor catch-up on top of craftable gear, both which comes in more quantity from m+ content.
Raid tuning usually comes later, as Blizzard tends to let the acquisition of gear gradually nerf the raid encounters, and the only time they step in sooner if there are big outliers in difficulty. This tier that boss was Dathea.
I agree that Anduin was rough, overall a lot of bosses in Sepulcher had the Anduin issue (Halondrus, Lords of Dread, Rygelon).
I think players becoming picky with classes and specs are sadly a byproduct of numerous systems in place, on top of the fact that most people are incapable of reading information that is being given to them. These I attribute to:
-The leveling system (develops lack of class/spec knowledge)
-The ease of which we overgear content (further delays the actual learning phase)
-The gradual gear acquisition from catch-up mechanisms like the crafting system and the vault. It inflates the itemlevels and makes it a bad metric to guess at oneâs capabilities.
At this point we did not even get into spec complexity, but since you have to place to practise and learn these, unless you read through guides and pay attention to use the abilities (or you pvp) I think most should expect that others will not know what their spec can do. That is partially something that, if fixed in some way, would improve the pug experience over time.
Classes are generally tuned well enough to handle most bosses, though we did have some that require hefty amount of buffs (that Blizzard begin addressing sooner than usual, mind you). I think Dathea is the only boss I can bring up where the encounter difficulty was fundamentally different if you did not have a DK and/or prot warrior in your group.
Usually the issue will lie in the players, rather than the spec itself, which is also where spec complexity can make the situation worse. This will not change much until the game starts teaching the basics to its players, and until then pugging will stay the hell hole it is currently.
We still had them in Legion but they were gone in BFA and 2 tiers out of 3 in SL. The end result were borrowed powers which were actually harder to optimize and understand that tier setsâŚ
Whatever, letâs be glad in 3 xpacs classes will have 20 abilities in basic rotation + 5 major cooldowns with 30 procs to track with Weak Aura with healers strongest abilities healing for 1% of playerâs health with 1 hour cooldown. All of this with raids filled with 10 overlapping abilities per boss and M+ with every mob/boss cast causing wipe if not interupted. #challenge #fun #gitgud
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I disagree.
I donât think itâs good game design to be replaying the same content (only a harder).
It should be that you choose the content difficulty to suit your comfort level / capability level.
Small friends and family guilds with casual players would play Normal.
Well organised groups of higher skilled players would play Heroic (ignoring Normal).
Those not wishing / able to do progression raiding would do Story Mode LFR (should be easier than current version).
Not sure what the purpose of Mythic is outside of RWF and to make players doing heroic feel like theyâre missing out on true raiding as they arenât in the highest level.
Youâve answered it yourself: âIt should be that you choose the content difficulty to suit your comfort level / capability level.â
Some people simply arent comfortable with heroic and deem it way too easy.
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True - most people i know just skip normal and Heroic and just go straight to m0 to get a feel of the dungeons then straight to +2.
Can safely say the only time i do normal is if a quest is involved
Linking other posts by godawful players does not prove your point at all. It only proves that they are the more vocal players that would prefer to go on the forums and moan like dogs instead of trying to get better at the game or just playing something else that brings them joy. And you my friend are an extreme example of a toxic cespool.
The majority of specs have approximately 4 buttons in their core rotation with a few more sprinkled for opener or niche situations. Oh, and also, most of the new âcomplexâ tier bonuses are passive effects.
As I said previously, go back to classic because you are simply sad.
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Also, the fact that you even consider some weird scenario where players are trying to âgatekeepâ and âcrush their competitionâ with how good they are has nothing to do with reality. Have you ever considered that people are simply enjoying the game for themselves? I swear there is something wrong with you mentally if these are the conclusions you reach.
Do everyone a favor and stop posting on the forums, thanks.
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Funny if we compare raiding numbers from Legion to now. Legion raiding was massively successful.
At the same time M+ in legion was much easier, gave more loot and the loot that dropped could titanforge.
So this is just⌠objectively wrong?
The difference is that Legion was incredibly easy to play compared to now.
Look at a Prot warrior right now. The button bloat for offensive skills is already insane, and they have stuff like Outburst which basically forces you to install a WA to decide whether to cast Shield Slam or Thunderclap (depending on the amount of monsters you are facing) when it procs.
In Legion I would never complain about tier sets. Why? Because the game was so simply that the added complexity would not be an issue. Now though, any added complexity is a nightmare for bad / mediocre players (who make up the majority of the WoW playerbase).
Yes, the added difficulty basically encourages rerolling FOTM design because of the tight tuning. In a MMORPG this is obviously bad.
Raiding in Classic was a massive success. If raiding gets too hard, and thus becomes too unrewarding an experience to the masses, players just quit.
Naxx, which had incredible raid log numbers in Classic Wrath had already been previously released in:
- Vanilla WoW
- Wrath WoW
- CLassic WoW
Yet the raid numbers are incredible compared to retail which has brand new raids?
| RAID | % guilds got AOTC 4 weeks in | |
|---|---|---|
| The Nighthold | 27.91 % | |
| Tomb of Sarg | 21.81 % | |
| Antorus THE SUCCESFUL RAID | 36.73 %!!! | |
| Uldir | 18.34 % | |
| BDA | 20.88 % | |
| Eternal Palace | 28.38 % | |
| Nyalotha | 31.83 % | |
| Castle Nathria | 11.06 % | |
| Sylv Raid | 13.69 % | |
| Shadowlands final fail raid | 4 !!!% | |
| vault of incarn | 12.1 % |
Game gets significantly harder = raid numbers fall. You can call bad players dogs, it won´t change the fact that some people just can´t improve. Instead of wasting their time spending months progressing heroic raiding, they will just quit the game. These are the kind of people who are paying the bills for your high-end content. If these people leave, you will have nothing left to do.
Don´t bite the hand that feeds you.
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If you ask the geniuses in this thread, they will unironically claim that stuff like Prot warrior outburst is good design. Absolutely clueless.
Look at the difference between a tank doing M+ in Legion and now. Like anyone can just go to Youtube and find the vids. The added bloat from abilities is insane. Even worse all the abilities have gotten more complex interactions with each other.
Now of course, to this disaster concoction of bloated and complex class design, Blizzard in their infinite wisdom decided to make dungeons and raids even more complex. This again, is an undeniable fact. Was this enough for Blizzard though? Nonono, what if we add the final ingredient of a harder tuning, and thus Blizzard have created their Frankenstein monster of Dragonflight. Where something like Mythic raiding is such a failure it might as well not exist if looking at the participation numbers.
Dude I love your posts hahahaha
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This is the mentality you have when creating a single player game, not a mmorpg. You should know better than this as a classic character.
You know what should be? It should be the case, that the devs try to create a successful game that people actually wanna play. Looking at all the available data we have this is clearly not the case.
Your posts, like always, betray a complete lack of understanding about human nature. When content gets too difficult, people do not just ´´settle´´ for ´´lower´´ content. They do not just settle for LFR, normal or heroic. They leave the game.
I don´t care about what people SHOULD do, keep your normative clownery to urself. This is what people do, they QUIT. Guilds that could do the highest content back in WoD, then could not cope after Nighthold, what did they do? They quit. People who used to Mythic raid back in BFA, but can´t cope with the increased dificulty of SHadowlands / DF, what did they do? They QUIT.
How do we know they quit? Because even normal and heroic raid numbers are absolutely awful. Again, idc, about the pick-ur-self-up-by-your-bootstraps in a VIDEOGAME logic. If the game gets too hard / too difficult people QUIT.
We of course, already knew this back in Cata, which saw a massive exodus of players because Blizzard decided to increase dungeon difficulty. jUsT dO dUnGeOns oN tHe lOwEsT diFfIcuLty, nah ppl just quit.
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