Suggestion: Rated WM WPvP

(Dashia) #43

There is argument about how to differentiate “the new rating system” from what we are having already in place and I read it. It’s just a huge debate but in the end this would become just another competition system. There are posters who already pointed it out but were somehow ignored. Whatever you make, people eventually get farming for a title or whatever you gave them to farm for. But this is a comment to your suggestion. I also gave other arguments about the WPvP rating.

(Coolgroove) #45

Yes, they will, just like now with achievements, items, even pushing rating is a farm but with a name for it, and everything else in the game. I think there is no getting away from that - almost everything in WoW is farmable, something harder, something easier, it’s a nature of the beast so to say.

If just in WPvP - players were farming zone/conqueror achievements, and I don’t think it takes away from game-play, it enhances it.

Competitions can be different. Yes, if we look at anything similar to Arena rating system, just like Ternezia pointed out - it can end up badly. But on the other hand - we got even transmog competitions.

It’s not something bad if competition can still motivate players to do something, to do it better and to compare yourself to others, while not being harsh or punishing.

And if there are additional social features and some form of progression - why not?

(Dashia) #46

Because of WPvP itself, because it is rather aggressive part of the game but still to group casuals, though. Even Blizzard states it’s for those how enjoy having a little bit of more adrenaline while questing. When I said farming for something in WPvP, it is far from the same as farming for transmog! Another rating system would force people to get another group of achievements. If those achievements would make any meaning at all, they would cause inviting certain players to groups over others who have not got achievements. It’s happening right now, you don’t get invitation to a certain group, e.g. for RBG or Arena if you don’t show your rating. You can’t achieve any rating without participation. You would rather make player, casuals, fall into the same system and problems associated with it. Casual players do WPvP probably to avoid Arenas and Rated BGs for that very reason. It will IMO rather cause discouragement and you would lose players who don’t enjoy competition. I already stated it in one of my previous posts.

(Vaëyn) #47

Some good ideas, and good to poke at any suggestion.

I mean, I don’t feel I NEED rating in WM. But felt, at minimum, some way to know more about the opponent. Could say, in wpvp, its correct to have no info like that before a fight. Maybe just after fight.

Good points above. Maybe knowing the activity level like bounties would be enough. Am I fighting a WM PvEer, or a WPvPer. I am interested to know. Should I know that only after the fight? A msg in chat frame? An addon?

Maybe no leaderboard, no rated gear reward. Just info in game, easily seen. Maybe an addon to track it, like Reflex does for Arena/bgs, making it even more optional.

I don’t need… but would be nice to have something. Make it work for me pls. :blush:


Actually… my spy addon keeps track of my own wins/losses v opponents. So, i suppose I already have a personal leaderboard. Maybe an addon something like that for WM kills, bounties, etc tracking. Kills would at least be doable, and I’m sure an addon could add an indicator to nameplate. Spy can interact with other spy users in your group. Maybe even a spy extension could do the nameplate, it already shows on tooltip. Would just be an indication, not really what I had in mind. But its something. Maybe same addon users could see leaderboard. Just kills without knowing corcumstance is limited info. Could be fun tho. And would not affect non addon users at all.

Gimme something, make it work.

(Coolgroove) #48

Obviously, it was just an example to demonstrate that there are other, not so intense, forms of competition…

But we already dropped Rating system. It was already discussed why it can be bad. And that’s why I gave you a link to the post previously.

We already have a Conqueror set of achievements, and they are basically just a statistics that someone is doing WPvP long enough. I was never asked for one, nor I ever asked anyone or hear about others doing it.

Those achievement have about as much meaning as WPvP achievements can have for any system that is not a rating system - they give title and a mount.

I don’t dismiss your point, yes there is a problem for Rated Arena/BGs, but I think it is there ONLY because you can lose rating, and that is what forces players to ask for rating and achievements.

But if there is no rating system, but a statistics system that shows what player is doing more in WPvP, without possibility to loose rating because there is none - that problem could not exist.

That is one of the differences between rating and statistics - you accumulate statistics easier and in a background anyway, and unlike rating - you can’t lose it.

Yes, you can farm it if you wish to do so, just like any other thing - another motivation to participate in certain activity in the game, and without drawbacks of a rating system.

No I’m not, we moved away from rating, in posts above.

That’s one of the reasons we moved away from a rating system.

Statistics systems, NOT rating, can provide a light competition, just because it’s a comparison and information about other player, and NOT a rating ladder with gains and loses that comes with it.

It can also provide motivation to do better, in a lighter form, without stresses of a rating system.

just to remind what system we are talking about:

by “player is better at” I mean - player is doing it more, and potentially can be better at it.


Achievements with titles…

Why not?

(Coolgroove) #49

Yeah, I use it too, it’s at least something, but still just a workaround.

I would love for this to be an actual in-game system, well designed and unified form for everybody, without an addon dependency. Plu, not everybody is using addons.

(Karanze) #50

Give it up.
He ignored my points entirely and he ignores yours as well, judging from the comment he made above.
No point in arguing when he can’t look further than live servers, like how he claims achievement requirement isn’t a problem currently, so it definitely won’t be a problem if you implement a competitive system.

(Coolgroove) #55

Not everybody gives up so easily as you do.

I pointed all of your points, you just didn’t like that I don’t agree with you.
And now you’re telling lies… how low.

No I’m not, you need a better judgment.

another lie, wanna quote to crush you again? catch

lair. how petty and low.

yeah, that is something you’re struggling to understand - how system designed is going to determine if it’s a problem or not.

Look at the posts above - there are ppl who can actually make a valid argument without lies or being afraid of rogues. Maybe you’ll learn something, if you’re able to.

You are late to the party, don’t be a petty loser.

(Karanze) #56

You are aware that those people you are praising have made almost the exact same argument as I have right?
As I said a while ago, it’s amusing to watch you spend such a large amount of time making these “lol I win because I say so” posts. It’s not about winning or “crushing” anything.

And the best part is; the final conclusion you made after a few other people disagreed with you, is literally the system I proposed quite a while ago.


(Coolgroove) #57

Are you trying to squeeze yourself under someones umbrella with more lies?
Your arguments was not exact, and definitely not even almost.

And then about META and fear of Rogues…

Are you able to understand that all of these points and argument that you’ve made in this thread have nothing to do with

You’ve just tried to take somebody else’s argument as you own? Really?
So not only you lie, but also what? steal others arguments and claim that you made them?

This is a new kind of low for you. Now, just stop…

Stop making up things I didn’t post. How more lies can you make…
Do you really feel this much need to validate yourself that you need to lie and make up stuff.

Why do you lie so much? I didn’t come to your conclusions. Scroll a couple of posts up - there is a completely different conclusion and system discussed.

Conquest points were discussed by a lot of players, including me, since the first “Conquest bar” at the start of BfA and the lack of PvP vendors. Are you tying to take it as “your idea” too…

So many lies, this is beyond pathetic.
Karanze, stop embarrassing yourself, it’s boring and not fun.
But most importantly - it adds nothing to discussion. Get over it already.

(Karanze) #58

Just got double pizza so keep at it and I’ll enjoy.

Pointing out that I talked about how a power gap, if you made a rating system, would make it unfun is one of the arguments I have made. Do point out where I said that everybody was making all the arguments I made.
Granted, it may not have been the “almost exact same” argument the others made, but the message is the same.

I am certain you’re a nice guy my man, but throughout this post your arguments attack the person, aka me, instead of the argument. I don’t recall calling you a liar, “low”, pathetic or whatever non-sense you could mix up. Talk about irony.

At this point I should attack back, but that’s below me.

(Khyrneken) #59

But Alliance should get 30% more rewards, right? ^^

And what about those Alliance swamped zones? Horde might have the majority region-wise but the Alliance are outnumbering in the majority of shards. How is rating going to be calculated when players are zerg-monged by overwhelming numbers in that area?

(Coolgroove) #60

Excuses, still missing the point completely.

Only you made your arguments. Still can’t stop lying I guess.

I don’t care about your delusions anymore.

Looks who’s talking. lol. You’ve started it, I finished it.

Yes. Because I didn’t lie or tried to steal others arguments.

Can’t think of another lie probably.

Bon appetit on my ignore list.

(Coolgroove) #61

No more rating. Start from this post in this thread - Suggestion: Rated WM WPvP

(Bigbicepsman) #62

It would be good as alls I pretty much do it wpvp or bgs but I’m not sure how it would work

(Coolgroove) #63

Well, rating system could be way to much stress and in a way of WPvP free spirit, like was pointed out in this post - Suggestion: Rated WM WPvP
So last idea was - more of a statistics bases system in this post - Suggestion: Rated WM WPvP

Suggestions welcome! Why would you like something like that in the first place, what would you want from it, any ideas, etc

(Khyrneken) #64

Fair enough. Hate the new forum thread layouts a bit anyway.

Well as long as it isn’t any massive penalty for dying which would then cause far too much caution in WPvP. People would be too scared to lose their rating/rank.

But giving everyone a commendation slate might work? It would show what kind of soldier the player is. Their part in the war.

How many kills, fights, saves have you been in? Yes, you’ve died 274 times, but you’ve killed 1498 players, mostly defending Darkshore and a lot of them where Gnomes. Or, you’ve participated in over 300 large scale fights and have successfully healed 700 allies from near-death.

This could then be offset by dishonourable kills and other negative activities. It would show if you’ve been more of a Paragon or a Renegade during the war without too much RP.

(Coolgroove) #65

Yes, statistical system instead of ranks, and with it some form of battle reports also possible, and only by overall activity, but also by single skirmishes in WPvP.

Kill solo / in group / in raid could be used to give achievements with titles each season - by highest metric, be it solo / group / raid.

Same stats could be used to show in tool-tip (or as an icon near nameplate) - what is this player highest metric (what they are up to the most), and by that show that this player could be good solo or in groups, or raid fighter.

Similar could be for healers, but with addition of saved allies, and kill count from those who they healed.

Since there is no actual rating and with that - no “loosing” possibility, no penalty for dying - it won’t be stressful, and still can be motivating to try/do certain activity more.

Plus, seasonal achievements, titles, maybe even mounts - all can be great motivation for players to go in WM, without stress of ratings/ladders/etc.

And this kind of system will be great enhancement for future WPvP features, like control points / towers / zone controls. Something like that is coming in 8.2. It can have all statistics and battle reports, maybe even available in Armory - can be great social feature, for memories of glorious battles and heated discussions.

And if we finally get PvP vendors - WPvP can be just great.

(Khyrneken) #66

Anything to do with duels, larger fights, locations (could even generate names for specific battles of significant length and size!). Was it a fight during a World Quest? Raid on a city? Etc?

This reminds me of titles like “High Warlord”. Could be something similar. Something for different performance. Some silly. Some serious. Nothing that is too easy to get though.

Exactly. Just actually showing how much of a WPvPer the player is. Are the fair? Are they good? Do they have honour or team play? Or are they solo fighters?

PvP Vendors with currency only gainable from WPvP activities. Fighting. Defending. Etc. Maybe only have players drop them? Or perhaps my Tower/Capture point idea could be used? ^^

(Coolgroove) #67

Yes. Something similar to EVE Online kill mail / battle reports thing, not for every single 1v1 obviously, and avaliable in-game and from armory.

Something more serious for solo/group accomplishments, something silly for raid-only fighters.

Ofc. But not a mindless vanilla-like grind too.

Yes. And it’ll be something interesting for every player. Information and motivation.

Even when casual player in WPvP will see that this body that running towards them strangely aggressive have an icon near nameplate, and it shows that it’s a seasoned duelist, would be ether informed to can run away as fast as they can, or motivated to “hey, maybe I’ll try and do better this time, I would like to have same icon too”. (obv., it’s a simplified hypothetical example)

It can be all of that.

As was discussed many times - Conquest shouldn’t be a bar, but a currency. And PvP vendors that sell all pvp items, not just Azerite, and NO rng-boxes.

Players who do Rated stuff have discount prices base on their rating, so Glad for example will get 385 item for the same price as non-rated can get 355. Basically, higher your rating = higher ilvl gear you can buy for the same amount of Conquest currency.

Conquest just as now - from PvP activities.

Bounties can drop it more than once a day, but less on a second and later times (similar to random BGs). Or, after player gets a bounty on them, on each player kill add +1-5 Conquest to the existing 35 - more they kill, juicier they are to claim.

Airdrops can have more conquest if you kill enemy players in it’s vicinity before claiming it - also add +some Conquest for each enemy death near it.

From new additions and features like towers, control points, WPvP objectives, etc. in the future.

War Mode / WPvP is a sandbox - possibilities are endless, just needs good systems as a foundation.