Because the full dungeon is the challenge. Not the individual boss. And there is no timer when you do the mechanics well by just pulling 1 pack at a time. I am totally fine after full time wiping the key downgrades when i am not making the +1 timer. Obviously we were not up for that difficulty for that dungeon. I only have a big problem with a +17 is timeable on dungeon A while dungeon B on +14 is not even finishable.
That doesnt answer the question. YOU might like trash wipes being a make or break consideration for a dungeon run and I am not asking for timed runs being taken away from you. Why cant I play the content without the time and with individual boss drops? I find that much more enjoyable.
I have no issue with timed M+ being more efficient. Give everyone doing a timed run 2 pieces of gear at the end for a timed key. Honestly, I think that would be totally reasonable. I just want a non timed alternative which isnt a joke offering no challenge and gear worse than world quests and LFR. I liked the difficulty of trash and bosses in the +10 to +15 range, just not the specifics of the timed format.
What make or break do you mean? We just do the dungeon, with and without wiping. There is no make or break 
Then why do I get invites as a holy priest?
Glitch in the matrix.
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If the challenge is the whole dungeon, I assume you mean you want trash to feel important, ie, you screw up the trash, it can be the difference between success or failure. Thats what I mean.
Then why do I get invites as a holy priest?
Because they needed a healer and a better choice wasnt available at the time. If its a genuine pug, they arent taking you because they wanted to be charitable to holy priests.
Mystery solved.
About what success or what failure do you talk? The challenge is to finish the whole dungeon. That is success?
Lol, what.
I literally joined a group yesterday for a +18 key where there were no less than 4 healers in queue with both higher score than me and more meta than a holy priest as well, with them being resto druids & evokers. Yet he didnât invite them.
If they didnt take you because they thought you were the best option they had, why did they take you do you think?
What is your point exactly? Do you need think that in M+ pugs, people dont just pick the best of whose available (and actually accepts the invite, high demand players often dont).
If you really think that M+ and RIO havent made players pickier in pugs, I cannot help you. Thats obviously not true, and I think everyone in this thread knows it perfectly well.
About what success or what failure do you talk? The challenge is to finish the whole dungeon. That is success?
I think my point was very obvious. If you dont understand it, I dont think I can explain it more straightforwardly.
That a lot of people donât follow whatâs meta like a slave. Most donât care about whether youâre a meta class or have the highest score, they just care if you can do it.
Again, what incentive do people have to take anyone other than what they perceive to be the best option for the group? Are you claiming M+ players pick people signing up at random? Cause they certainly dont.
No.
They have a criteria to meet, most people donât have an absurd criteria to meet and will invite anyone that matches their criteria. Some might even shy away from inviting higher score people, especially meta classes, because thereâs a higher chance of them leaving if it goes south.
This whole âhurdihurr, score, metaâ is just dumb. Yes, there are meta slaves but theyâre by no means so prevalent that you canât get invites as an off-meta class.
I am not talking about absurd criteria, I am just talking about rational behaviour. The idea that when presented with a series of option, most people wont pick what they perceive to be the best option is clearly not true. If I have Mr Sh*t Hot Healer, and Mr Probably Good Enough But Clearly Not As Good Healer, why would I ever take the latter?
Except you donât know how good a healer is just by the score or the class they play.
No, but you have absolutely no reason to think the lower score, worse class healer will be better do you? So you will pick the likely better healer.
Bruh, I did(tried) keys up to +28 in SL(Albeit that failed hard).
After the stuff Iâve seen score means almost nothing to me. Had some warrior tank in an iron docks +25 that wanted to stop the 3rd boss from doing cages and he just constantly reset the boss instead, making us not able to time the key because he just kept resetting the boss.
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Bruh, you arent making a coherent point. I dont care what you did. You havent been clear about what you are saying, but you seem to be saying people dont simply choose the best option they think they have.
As a key holder with a weekly ilevel cap key, you can create a group, take 3 mins to grab a drink, come back, and have several options for every place. Do you honestly think people dont just pick the best options they have, or are you trying to argue that they instead look at who they think is good enough, and then give the off meta classes or lower score a chance to be nice? If so, you are wrong. This will very rarely occur.
Yes, score isnt everything. But in a PUG, its the information you have. There is no reason to assume the lower score, worse class player will be better, there is a reason to think they will be worse, and players will behave accordingly.
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The best option someone thinks they have isnât necessarily the highest score or meta class. Thatâs what youâre not understanding. You seem to think just because youâre a meta slave and obsess over score, it means everyone else is as well.
Have to ask why do you care about m+ when you do not do it anyways why change something you do not use?
You seem very vocal and aggersive about changing the game for others when you do not par take in it.
no run is waste of time.
each time you learn something - for example what to be careful with and what can be problematic when in future you will retry that key.
what you want is guaranteed success - and you have that - its called normal and hc dungeons.
there is nothing wrong with doing just those and maybe m0 if someone lack skilsl for m+
there is no shame in just doing those and "being done " once you get gear from m0 .
i dont understand why so many players just dont know when to stop.
imo its because to many players are being carried constantly in low m+ keys to keys way above their 'paygrade"