Yes? Cause if you have read the script of what your character whom you are voice-acting says, that means you have read and know the plot?
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So if the script of the next expansion said that Gulâdan was never a bad guy, it means that he was not evil?
Good and Evil are perspectives man, dont be so typical. What is worth discussing is the impact.
Guldan was definately Evil. However, he is considered the most influential Orc right next to Thrall cause the stuff he did influenced Orcs for generations, in good and bad ways. In the end however the Orcs came stronger out of it, and they have a prime example to avoid like âDont be a Guldanâ.
So yeah⌠I NEVER SAID Sylvannas is a good girl. Hell no, but I do believe she is borderline evil. And in the end her impact of her actions might end up doing more good than harm. But we cant know until the full story unfolds. So far u dont know what she plans, so it makes perfect sense with the evidence given to consider her âan evil genocidal maniacâ.
However for anyone who has followed her character since the beggining they know she never does things without a reason. She has a plan inside a plan etc.
So people branding her genocidal whatever I get it.
But people branding her âStupid with no strategy etcâ are in for a big surprise and I dont even need to know the full story for that. Blizz have confirmed it at every turn Sylvannas 4D chess, Chinajoy they said she wont die and we wont be done with her even after the end of BFA. Yet ppl scream at forums and post stuff like âok who is next warchief on 8.3â .
That is being dellusional sry
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Congratulations, you almost got the point. The voice actress sharing her perspective, since she was talking about good and evil, means absolutely nothing.
âŚthough I have to disagree with that certainty that good and evil are perspectives, I rather think perspectives on the issue can diverge, rightly or wrongly.
âŚno idea how that fits with the first sentence, though.
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Haha, ok dude. Youâre one of those âmuh perspectivismâ people who think that killing babies is good from a certain point of view. You neednât say more.
Hereâs a fact: Good and evil are not malleable. They do not adhere to your perspective. If you eat a baby, you are evil. If you burn an entire magical kingdom full of civilians, you are evil. I find it amazing how Sylvanas fanboys have this incredible ability to spin it around and claim that genocide is anything but pure evil.
Blizz have confirmed it at every turn Sylvannas 4D chess, Chinajoy they said she wont die and we wont be done with her even after the end of BFA. Yet ppl scream at forums and post stuff like âok who is next warchief on 8.3â .
Wrong. They said she would not die that quickly, and them having major plans for her could mean a lot of things. They had major plans for Arthas in WotLK, that didnât mean he wasnât going to be a villain or survive. Earlier at Blizzcon Afrasiabi hinted that Sylvanas will no longer be warchief at the end of BfA, so go figure why people think she isnât going to stick around the Horde for long.
Which is a good thing. Under her rule the Horde almost lost the war in 8.2. Her plan to survive relying entirely on sacrificing her leadership by sending them into a trap.
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I keep finding it funny that the relativism argument is tossed up without any knowledge of the consequences of it. I mean, even you start using words such as âevilâ and âgoodâ directly after you say this. How can you even use those words if it just depends on the perspective?
Tell me what good ways.
Do you want me to spell out the obvious, real world comparisons? I honestly donât want to do it, but these kind of posts hardly leave me with a choice. Sure, I guess that, what, Stalin did some great things for modern day Russia as well. Doesnât excuse any of his actions. Just like Illidan, I know that the Legion-propaganda Blizz tried to force on us tried to hide what happened in Shadowmoon, but I remember the quests where it was clear Illidan was pretty much a bad guy.
Now, we can cross relativism off the list, and here comes consequentialism! You know, that theory that in its very basis claims that the moral value of an action depends on the result of it, and solely the result. Now, every moral theory has been attacked with a very standard argument: theory x justified morally despicable action y, therefore, the truth of x should be reconsidered.
Now, what you do here, my dear Aatsui, is you actually USE an argument based on consequentialist thought that has been used to ATTACK the theory you are using to justify the Warchief you love so dearly.
In my whole, dear life, I have never seen someone doing this. Please, tell me these are not the moral values you adhere to in real life.
You have to be kidding me.
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Ofc not this is Warcraft after all. Its you guys giving arguments like its real life. There are no united nations in Azeroth and factions are the closest thing to globalisation. Its constant war. So u cant do activism on social rights cause youâll probably die lol.
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That was not my point at all, you are the one here using real-life ethics even though itâs very clear Blizz has an obvious good/evil narrative. Sargeras, Kilâjaeden, the Lich King, these are all obvious bad guys while Anduin, Velen, Thrall, Baine are obvious good guys.
You are the one trying to find more to it than there actually is. If you are going for ethical theories, Iâll hit you with them.
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And yet these âgood peopleâ are grand examples of hard choices. Velen had to effectively abandon his people in an attempt to save the rest. Thrall united the Horde and yet left Garrosh in charge to fight Deathwing And we Know how that went⌠Cairne⌠Theramore
So its your compartmentalisation that brands âGoodâ or evil.
Thrall united the Horde but he also messed up Royaly with Garrosh. All the characters are flawed and its how they should be to be interesting.
Illidan hit a nerve on Velen also on Vindicaar cinematic about abandonig his people.
So yeah⌠judging by their actions too, results DO matter. Cause Velen left so many to die but in the end saved his people in the Alliance family.
Had he failed, would he be as âgoodâ in ur eyes or would u say he failed his people?
Get real man
Yeah, and he felt awful about it. Wht did Sylvanas feel again when she slaughtered her way into Darkshore for her supposed âgrand schemeâ?
And again, it was a hard choice for him to make, one he regrets still. Does Sylvanas regret killing both Horde and Alliance soldiers when she thought she had no choice but to deploy the Blight during the Siege of Lordaeron?
Excuse me, my what?
Of course they do, but you are using the consequences to justify actions that are considered to be immoral. Like, youâre going to need a stronger defence than âsheâs playing 4D chess guys, open your eyes and seeeeee!!â to justify her actions even slightly.
How is that even relevant?
These arrogant remarks just make me want to continue stomping your pathetic arguments into the ground.
Yeah man Archbishop Benedictus was also being âgoodâ and preaching the Light.
My point exactly is until you see what her endgame is all about you cant know.
She is fighting a War and practically winning so lets reach a conclusio on her result after 8.3
Cause with half information you cant judge.
Thrall slaughtered Kultirans and Daelin.
Jaina the good girl, oh how she slaughtered Horde after Theramore, and lets not forget Dalaran Purge.
If you judge with half the story, you can reach ur personal assesments but they are not complete
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Ok so, you think that all the countless deaths will be justified once it is revealed that Sylvanas was actually doing a good thing?
Prove it. Give me a counterexample. Show me a scenario in which the Burning of Teldrassil is justified.
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No she isnât. She would have lost the war if not for her âbrilliantâ plan to lure her strongest allies into an ambush in the open sea.
And you donât need to wait 2 years to realize that burning children in their homes is evil. But as always Sylvanas fanboys have this ability to paint genocide under a positive light.
but hey it is world of WAR craft lol
The argument one always resorts to when they have no argument left.
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Shadowlands man.
Leaks aside, it has been stated to be the opposite of the Emerald Dream in a similar sense.
And last two expansion we have Emerald Dream all the time and the Void.
Then we also have new players that deal said âdeathâ Eyir, Odyn, Bwonsamdi and ofc Lich King.
Then Nzoth prophecies âAll eyes will open. He will awaken and they shall slumber in his steadâ
Helya also and the deal we dont know of. Plus Sylvannas in her Stormheim campaign in the RP says she will not rest while there are still beings out there that can control death.
So yeah I think thereâs major Void and Death incoming in the lore , so if she ends up giving us a fighting chance against all that or something (admitedly absurd) like âHey been sending our good soldiers to the other side cause hey thereâs another War in the Shadowlands ,
Wouldnt exactly make amends true, but hey it is world of WAR craft lol
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Ow a challange lets see.
So i need to justify the murder of thousents of families.
Husbands, wives, daughters, sons.
The compleet destruction of an entire zone and the conquest of two others.
That is a challange.
Ah idea.
She is trying to get elune to come down here and fix things.
Not really a perfect idea but it could be made work.
She is trying to get a cure for being undead or get into a beter after life.
There is also the constant attacks by the legion, scourge, old gods, etc.
Sylvanas is going out of her way to anger elune.
Trying to get the one being able to solve all these problems with a handwave to come and talk to her.
First she tries and anger tyranda by targeting her husband but that failed.
With tyranda being elune best friend and all.
That didnt work.
So she burn tedrassil.
Sure that would draw the godess attation.
Still not enough.
Ok meaby if she raises enough corpses into undead she finaly draws eluneâs gaze.
It is a long shot but from what we know of elune.
She would have the means to fix azaroth(destroy the old gods without harming azaroth) Save the forsaken from there undead curse.
Return the dead to life.
Etc, etc.
Sylvanas made a bargain with helga.
I am sure she feels she could bargain with elune.
Elune is peacefull after all.
So the chance of her being killed by a divine bolt is close to zero.
Ofcourse this would be very duex ex machina but a desperate person will try anything.
Or meaby she is controled by the lich king.
And he is using her to wage a proxy war.
The real sylvanas had been dead since her suiced at icecrown.
Or she seeks to get enough worshippers and power to become a death goddess herself.
She could be trying become the goddess of the forsaken.
The one who offers the unjustily slain a second chance in unlife.
The first one is mostly wishfull thinking.
The second one would be the most logical and would âjustifyâ tedrassil as a scourge attack and would also explain why she wants to increase the body count as much as possible.
And the third option would be an interesting way to advance her story.
It is not like blizzard ever cared about what the alliance players think.
So, Sylvanas gives Night Elves no choice but to die in a horrible death, twists the Horde and forces them in a war they donât care about, sends Horde soldiers to their deaths, kills innocents and civilians wherever the Horde goes, and you are going to tell me that this is all going to be fine once we find out she was trying to save the world? You do realise she couldâve handled this differently, right? Or that there might have been other plans? And how does the Burning of Teldrassil serve this plan, didnât she kill the Night elves out of spite and because she was upset after that idiot Elf confronted her?
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I would love those Shadowlands leaks to become reality just to watch an even bigger Forum meltdown afterwards.
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To be fair, she changed her plan about burning Teldrassil mid-way through the cinematic. Ergo, it doesnât fit the âoverreaching schemeâ thing, or she wouldnât have changed it.
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It is Sylvannas man , it was expected of the Dark Lady to handle it like that.
The only good outcome of the War so far is everyone is on edge.
Nzoth is free and who knows what else is coming for us.
Its best to be prepared for the end of the World I mean we got our airships and cannons out.
Imagine what will happen to that poor villain who will stand between the factions. Oh wait we saw what happened in Nazjatar
Anyways, We can speculate until 8.3 hits
As we all know, the best way to unite the world against a common foe is by committing genocide on your would-be ally. Screw any attempt at a peace summit!
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