I have even timed up to 11 with a pug where all dps were hunter (1 of each spec).
We do not give a damn about class.
And nobody is defending toxicity.
We only claim it is very rare.
Who defends toxicity?
Itâs just not that prominent, nor happens often. What does tend to happen is that everyone calls behavior that they personally dislike as toxic regardless of whether it actually is. This only muds the discussion around M+.
And great that you didnât face toxicity in vanilla, that doesnât mean that there wasnât any. I faced it, Iâve seen it happen, all of it. Didnât happen all day every day but it happened, regularly. Do we project that on the entire community back then? Nope, we donât. Please apply the same now. Faced toxicity? Thatâs a shame. But itâs an online gameâŚyou will always face players with a different mentality or mindset. That is impossible to avoid.
Keep rationalizingâŚ
Thereâs no loss in losing someone who doesnât want to play anymore. Good for her that she enjoys other games.
1 Like
Iâm glad she is enjoying other games too, as otherwise we might not be able to share the hobby of gaming anymore. However if you look at my full sentence itâs clear that toxicity in WoW was her main reason to stop healing keys, and hence, stop playing wow. I had a conversation with her about this last night, different attitudes in the game may of lead her to stay, a shame as I do miss running m+ with my better half.
I am not sure if segregating loot drops to 3 different brackets like so will achieve the goal you think it will.
All it does it gives people like me the middle finger, who now will have to collect 9 different gear sets if they want to play every role of theirs. Even those who want to play two roles that means 6 different gear sets.
If as a tank I see that Iâd need to start the gearing process two more times just to progress from raids to doing delves or M+ I will just not bother.
I am aware of your whole sentence. However, I canât do anything with it - as toxicity is not always classified objectively.
A player can do quite a bit to reduce the chance of facing players with a bad attitude or an undesired attitude. Adding the good ones to your friends list, joining communities, finding a decent guild, and so forth. The fact that she didnât utilize these systems, or options, does indicate that the real reason she moved away from WoW/M+ is not just toxicity. But hey, itâs always easier to just shout about the stuff that bothers us than to do something (something we can actually manage to do ourselves) to improve the situation.
And if it stays like that, sheâll keep hitting a wall eventually.
Edit: Heck, Iâd even argue that if one goes into dungeons with the mindset that itâs toxic, that one will face toxicity. Either because they look for it so hard, or because their own behavior is based on prejudices due to that mindset â a selffulfilling prophecy.
As example: Iâve seen quite clear examples of this after the recent ban-wave. While we didnât even face it before, players suddenly called every single âDCâ out as âah, a toxic leaverâ. While in most cases it was just that, a DCâŚand they came back after 3 minutes. Some had left before that point, so theyâll probably keep thinking that it was a real leaverâŚ
Well iâm a new player, but after a few dungeons (3 months worth), i can see what current tanks are like.
They are pricks. Plain and simple. The old veteran tanks just want to rush the dungeon and do a deathball. Ignoring low level or squishy teammates that can get killed by mobs when you loose aggro. Or worst still, you dont keep aggro on your deathball and the DPS dies.
Or if one is a new tank, just trying to do the dungeon, the older players just want to RUSH RUSH RUSH, instead of enjoying the content. So tank gets flamed, kicked, and never tanks again.
Predictably, the problem is the community. I love the game, but i dislike the community more and more.
Thereâs unfortunately a problem in normal leveling dungeons. This also never changed. I got kicked out of 4 of my first 5 dungeons as new player back when M+ didnt even existed.
When it is about M+, this problem is actually way less.
To me M+ is a fresh air after queueable dungeons like leveling dungeons or timewalking dungeons.
1 Like
But you wonât need to do different kinds of content, because rewards are everywhere the same (mog) and trinkets/rings will those be BIS for you from the content you prefer. M+ ppl wonât be forced to raid for their BIS trinkets, raiders wonât be forced to do M+.
If you actually like different content, do it like me and just have different alts for it, so you can collect base gear on several chars and play different classes - or several of the same one if you prefer one class so much, thatâs more efficient in the end than collecting different gear sets on the same char.
Overall as a healer i needed a complete different gear set anyway when it is about raiding or M+. Luckily i stopped raiding in shadowlands, but secondaries are always the opposite. M+ need 0 mastery and full versatility, raid need full mastery. You also want different trinkets.
Or just use any defence. Like Iâd imagine monks would celestial brew and then purifying brew it or use the 4min cad whoâs name I forget
You mean Fortifying Brew? 
I think a problem WoW is beginning to face, is that the game is starting to revolve too much around challenging content and that it takes up too much of the entirety of the game.
I mean, if you compare it to Mists of Pandaria, then you had Challenge Mode Dungeons and that was basically it. All the other content in the game was fairly accessible to a wider audience.
When the game emphasizes Mythic+ progression as much as it does, it inevitably ends up nudging people into Mythic+ that perhaps donât really belong there.
With Challenge Mode Dungeons in Mists of Pandaria it was very much a mode for those who wanted the challenge, whereas Mythic+ is being presented as something for everyone - even though it may actually not be.
4 Likes
When you get clapped by a tankbuster every 12-18 seconds by 2 mobs, you end up with no buttons. Not to mention you need to use WAâs to even see them coming.
1 Like
Tanking in pugs is a high risk / low reward role.
You have to deal with system toxicity (key depletion / punishing mechanics) made by devs , player toxicity (no patiency), healers that DPS when they cannot, DPS that pull everything everywhere.
In PVP / solo content you get your one advantage (survivability) nerfed. Etc etc.
The latter is also made or at least increased by devs - why are people so impatient? Because of tight timers and content with low rewards, which means you have to run as many dungeons as possible in the least possible time to get anywhere.
Timers and increased difficulty also make the people more toxic, because having to wait on others or small mistakes by others hamper their progress more.
During SL a +15 gave max (vault) rewards, today itâs a +9/(+10?), which is equivalet to a old +20. Getting the same reward has become much more difficult and with it the patience of players with their teammates has shrunken.
1 Like
Where do we get this idea from that a current +10 is equal to an old +20? Please stop repeating othersâŚ
Probably itâs been a while since I played my
Monk. Itâs an alt so not good with ability names
1 Like
For me as PUG player they killed m+ with S4 dungeon changes
you didnât see it in DF cause S4 was coming right after very good season 3 and you could buy good stuff for doubloons or whatever it was called
but now you can see it and to add a fuel to the fire they even changed how you stop mobs from casting +15 sec penalty.
No one in their right mind could be bothered to push with changes like this be it tank or healer or even DPS.
Of course groups that are dedicated will do it but PUG is basically dead
Dungeon scaling overall is the biggest challenge not artificial BS they added in.
Because it was officially stated like this when they squished the key levels?
Yeah, from DF S3 to DF S4. You talked about SL?
But anyways, difficulties over different expansions cannot really be compared anyways. Different talents, different tuning, different balancing, different player-numbers, ⌠So regardless of what they stated back then, it no longer is relevantâŚand we see in the cutoffs that the story isnât as simple as â10 is the old 20â.