Private Server numbers by Sweatpant-Minmaxers != What 99.9% of Raids will be like.
Read the post by Zumbakumbo above.
You might think I am getting tired of posting these videos by now, but I really don’t 
Oh, what’s that? Warriors in top5 & top10? In a TBC raid? In one of the most Melee-Unfriendly fights of T5?
Nah, can’t be right…warriors are not, what was the word…“proper DPS classes”, amirite? 
TBC is by far one of the most balanced Expansions ever made for WoW.
That video is really not helping your case. You think it does, but it doesn’t.
Care to elaborate on that?
Because, the way these things usually work is this:
When someone postulates a hypothesis, and provides evidence to support it, then the Hypothesis can no longer be negated without Argument and evidence to the contrary. He who postulated has observed the rule of “Onus probandii”, so now the burden of proof shifted to the other side.
What do you think that video show us?
One of the most melee-unfriendly fights in T5 content, with 2 warriors doing very well in dps.
So, what do you think it shows?
The think about Leotheras video or Brutalus videos you linked earlier is that you look at dps chart and see rogal warrior or other melee hight on dps chart and think , cool they are good spec to raid, but after that you go and look at actual number they pull and then compare thouse numbers to min/max-ers from private servers you see that origninal tbc players looks rather weak
can you kill Brutalus with 2k dps ? yes you can
try hard warrs from private servers can pull even like 3k dps , you will ask then whats the problem? its like 50% over kill?
think is that Hunter or lock can pull 4k with much less effort
yes melee are preferctly ok to raid , you can go with 4-6 rogs or warr and styll kill bosses, but people will want to make raids as easy as possible by stacking top classes
you dont need to do it , but in same way you dont need to do it in classic even more,. yeat meny guilds keep insisting to get word buffs and warr stacking to get 30 sec faster kill on boss…
I see a terrible comp with people who took what they had from Vanilla and got down a boss after 2 month… The best players in the world at that time struggling to get the boss down…
How is that video from 2007 with god knows what itemization, specs and roster, executed by the players Method had available at that time, evidence for anything at all? What does it say about anything?
People played what they at that time thought was best, but 15 years of theorycrafting and testing - not only isolated but in regards to complete raid setups (including the benefits on a top down level aswell) has given us alot of information.
You might aswell post a T Ford from a race 1908 and claim that its the best car in the world based on that.
Also pretending that Method knew what was up back in TBC (in regards to that video) is kinda hard knowing they predicted a Day 16 Ragnaros kill in Classic and were wiping in ZF when APES killed Ragnaros.
So its really hard to see that video proving anything at all in todays context.
If you acually read what people wrote instead of stopping where your confirmation bias is questioned, you wouldnt need to get the same thing explanied to you everytime you provide a new 240p video.
That “terrible comp” is Method, who btw. killed Leotheras 1 day after the world first by <Murderer Inc>. At this time, most of the TBC Bosses up to and including Kel&Vash were badly tuned, bugged, and serious gearing issues were still unresolved.
Tell you what, when your guild does better than the guys who currently hold I believe it’s 12 world-firsts and counting, then you get to call them a “bad comp” 
And btw. what do you think most raids will be like?
Do you think 99% of Raids will be PServer sweatlord-minmaxers who run perfectly set up Speedrun-Raidcomps (which btw. not even PServers do during Progress)?
Nope. The vast majority of raids will be exactly what you described.
Semi-Optimal comps with what people they have from Vanilla and/or were able to grab along the way.
And lo & behold: They will be perfectly fine, competitive among their peers, and able to clear the content. The same, I think, will not be said about most wannabe-sweatlord comps, who dismiss 4/5th of potential recruits. Oh, I have no doubt that there will be a lot of these “progress-oriented” guilds at the beginning. And most of them will disappear before even P2 hits the servers
Dude, I literally said in the same post you quoted:
Not even a casual guild will struggle like that with a good comp and knowledge from today.
Your video is a horror example of what a bad comp will do. It will make the best players in the world struggle.
An average guild today will not play like a sweaty-hyperoptimized PServer Speedruncomp either. They also won’t have a Playerpool equally sweaty around them to recruit a hyper-optimized comp from.
Just like the average guilds didn’t run 16+ Warriors in classic.
And what happened? They still cleared the content. Even my sub-optimal class, using its sub-optimal race, and oftetimes sub-optimal consumables got to experience the entirety of the content. And all that happened in a version of WoW with FAR WORSE balancing than TBC.
Also, what does comp have to do with our argument?
You tried to tell me that Warriors are not “proper dps”. I post a video that shows them dpsing quite well. Your answer to that “but this is a terrible comp”…yeah, so what? How does that constitute a counter to the argument that Warriors are fine?
Is that your argument that it’s POSSIBLE to clear raids?
Your video is showing, literally the best players in the world at that time, struggling to kill a boss, after 2 months. And you think this video is evidence that melee are just fine?
That’s why I said, you think the video is supporting your case, but it doesn’t.
I am looking at that video and thinking, damn, the comp was more important than I cold ever imagine, just look at that, it’s terrible. Doesn’t look fun at all.
Dude, EVERYONE struggled to kill this boss!
Method killed Leotheras ONE DAY after the WORLD FIRST.
And btw. the “2 Months” argument is pointless, because everything from Karazhan to Hyjal was in the game from day one.
And I highly doubt that even the PServer Sweatlords would be able to progress through the T5 raids as smoothly as they are used to, if they had to play under the conditions back then, which included ridiculous tuning, bugs and gearing issues.
Yes, it is.
If they were not “proper dps”, then how did they manage to keep up?
If the comp was bad, then it was bad for EVERYONE, not the S Tier dps classes
Then don’t play like that.
No one forces you to play in what you seem as “terrible comps”.
If you want to be in a guild where everything other than 10 Warlocks is unacceptable, go for it, have fun. It’s your journey through TBC, you get to decide.
To be honest, I don’t care if you believe me or not, or think my arguments are valid or not.
I am having strong Deja Vus right now, to the people who told me that I will not ever get a raidspot as a human Warlock (because “not-Gnome != meta, and Warlock is Trash tier to begin with!!!11!!!”).
They were proven wrong too in the End 
Yes, that is literally my argument, it took them 2 month to kill that boss, that was in game from day 1…
You don’t think that if they had the knowledge, they would have prepared a better comp before launch and would not have been stuck with so many melee? I mean it is obvious they took what they had with the info they had and did the best of what they had, but what they had wasn’t good, they had way to many melee.
Anyway, I don’t see what you see. I am not the one who is toxic. I’m just calmly explaining to you that the video you use does not help your case, you think it does, but it doesn’t.
Yes! You are right mr 2000iq. Millions of logs and thousands of players are wrong, you are right! Go roll a warrior 
Game is evolved.
Did i say game is evolved?
And yet people wipe at Onyxia, Nefarian, or fail the Heigan Dance.
Regularly.
In P6.
With T3 gear
“Game is evolved” is true for a tiny fraction of the playerbase. Most people are as average as they were back in Vanilla. They raid more because the myths that Naxx & Co. are super-hardcore were dispelled by 16 years of WoW, have cheap broadband, and better means of coordinating (discord), but that’s about the only difference.
Whether or not something is viable, or decent or whatever the term du jour may be, is not decided at the top-end, it’s decided at the middle of the pack.
Yes, the top end stack tons of warlocks.
The top-end will blaze through SWP with Warlocks pulling 3k+ dps, such as in this video:
But 99.9% are not the top end.
And what is viable, broken, and “proper dps” is decided in these 99.9%
Well ther is one argunent that havey class stacking like people do on private servers in this vide wont be nessesery.
Muru in you link video got 3,6 mln hp, original Muru on Method kill have like 2,8 mln around 30% less hp
That as well.
Many PServers are catering almost exclusively to the sweatpant-crowd, and thus have to manipulate boss HP and whatnot to make it remotely interesting for people who cleared the content a dozen times over 
Warrior dps will be huge in the speed running community, moving and dpsing is vitial and fury warrior cleave damage is brilliant.
Leotheras isn’t so bad for melee. He’s taunt immune and the tanks cannot generate threat during his whirlwind phase, so if the ranged dps they will just get stomped the moment the whirlwind ends. He also resets agro several times during the fight, that isn’t until he changes forms, during the form change you also really want nobody attacking until the tank has gained threat (the tank likely being a Warlock during the demon phase).
Melee can top that fight, that doesn’t mean they will but it’s not a fight with a big advantage for ranged despite what it may appear at a glance. A’lar in TK is a fight that has a big advantage to ranged, or Prince Malchezaar in Karazhan.
And this may also be true too. Warrior can dps on the move, it has no mana drinking requirements and it isn’t bound by cooldowns to do dps, has comfortably the best cleave dps in the game and can do it without sacrificing single target at all.
The potential for Fury to actually emerge on top of this mess as a top speed clearing choice is there, though remains to be seen. And in particular if you’re going for boss speed kills, a Fury Warrior during Recklessness on a 6200 armor boss is nigh on untouchable, though the only issue there is the likelihood of threat being a problem.
Though it’s certainly doable (tank holding threat).
Dunno how many of you remember this, if you do you also know how it was done ^^. Another “melee unfriendly” fight, btw.