As much as there are many things I would enjoy experiencing again in a potential TBC Classic, I doubt it will hold up in the long term.
Players are generally a lot whinier today. Not just in WoW, in gaming in general.
I remember there being a hell of a lot more complaining in TBC than there were in Vanilla. Neither were perfect. But TBC was when it went into overdrive.
PvE?
BT/SWP Mechanics are barely more complicated than AQ/Naxx. Kara was laughed at how easy it was, even compared to MC. SSC was easy up until Vashj who was overtuned to begin with, but was nerfed to become a basic mechanic fight where you barely played your actual character.
Heroics were simple, but just hit hard. Have a good healer and it’s faceroll.
PvP?
World PvP was non-existent after the first few weeks of dicking around in Halaa. You can thank flying mounts for that, and they are a controversial topic even today in BFA/SL.
BGs were a bigger botfest than Vanilla, you go there with a new Level 70 to get your starting set and move on to arenas.
Arenas were basically a grotesque storm of Druid/Lock or Warr/Pala in 2v2 and Rogue/Mage/Priest in 3v3. 5v5 was a joke and just done for lolz (and was removed later on).
Gamers today are very fragile and delicate. If you think Classic was bad, buckle up for TBC boyos.
Classic Vanilla exists (in Blizzard words) as a “museum piece” to experience the game in it’s original form (although really we can see it was for $$$).
Why would TBC exist? As a demonstration of the beginning of the end? That’s what it was, and WoTLK was the finishing blow.
And the World Buff meta today is nothing compared to everyone needing LW drums and taking up Enchanting every time they get a new set of rings, so they can keep up their pink parses.
People said classic would fail as well.
I will at the very least prefer to play TBC over classic as dungeons at least have more replayability than classic ones… once you get that item, you no longer need to touch that dungeon.
WPvP in general is usually just ganking anyway.
WPvP is fun, if we don’t have overpopulated realms.
Lot’s of people clamoured for Classic because they were already playing on p-servers and wanted a more stable experience. People were tired of having to re-roll every few months as a server was taken down. We’ve had Classic almost two years, add to that the time people also played on the various p-servers, not to mention the years they played vanilla - so there are a good number of years where some people have been the same thing, it’s only natural for them to look at what comes next.
Did you also consider that not everyone is asking for, nor wants TBC? There are lots of people who didn’t play the original version of the game who are still enjoying Classic, plus those that just love it anyway. AQ is only just with us, Naxx is still a number of months away which means the natural end of the timeline is even further away.
If Blizz make TBC, people will play it, and some will enjoy it, some won’t, I’m not sure why you think whining about the game before it’s even been confirmed is worthwhile in any way whatsoever. Don’t like it, don’t play it, or if you do, play it and quit being a negative nelly.
This is so wrong I don’t know if you’re just trolling or if you actually played the game. I mean… let’s just compare a few bosses at similar levels of progression, shall we?
Ragnaros vs Magtheridon
Ragnaros: you literally just stand there and DPS the boss. That’s all there is to it. Occasionally people will need to be healed, but as long as they’re positioned properly even the knockback isn’t a huge issue for the ranged. Melee just have to move in and out of boss periodically. That’s it.
Magtheridon: The fight is split into three phases, and unlike Ragnaros there’s no avoiding any of them. Phase 1 you need to DPS channelers, interrupt them, CC Abyssals and keep up with the increasing dmg channelers do as you keep killing them (nothing too hard but still more than the entirety of Ragnaros’s fight, tactics-wise). Then you have phase 2 and 3, where you have to avoid Conflag patches and you have to deal with clicking cubes (which is relatively easy in 2.4 due to Mind Exhaustion lasting only 30 secs but can still get tricky when Quake and Nova occur at the same time and if a Collapse hits the cubes in p3).
Nefarian vs Kael’thas.
Nefarian has basically only 2 phases. Phase 1: kill dragonspawns, which spawn so slowly you can just kill them 1 by 1 until p2 starts. Phase 2, DPS down the dragon, and occasionally deal with a couple annoying class calls (rly only warrior call being somewhat problematic).
Kael’thas: 5 different phases, with phases 3 and 4 standing out as especially hard when you’re first learning the fight. I won’t go into every detail about them but really, each of these phases alone is harder than the entire Nefarian encounter.
It gets a bit closer when you compare AQ40 with BT and Naxx with SWP, but the big difference there is the tuning. Half AQ40 bosses don’t even have 1M HP and die within 1 minute and something. Even in Naxx, few bosses have over 2M HP and a good half of them will die before doing anything. In BT and SWP, by contrast, most bosses have enough HP to survive at least 3-4 minutes if not longer, and you won’t be able to cheese or outright avoid phases and mechanics no matter how geared you are. The resulting difference in difficulty is like night and day.
The problem with heroics isn’t even that they “hit hard”. The problem is that many heroic mobs have abilities (like CCs) that are problematic regardless of stats. That’s what makes heroics - at least some of them - tricky no matter your level of gear. Whereas you can literally run through any Vanilla dungeon blindly as soon as you’re MC/BWL geared, yet the place still ends up taking so long because it’s so damn big.
Because it was still an improvement over Vanilla, and your post is just evidence of it. Everything you blamed TBC for is true 10X as much in Vanilla, and yet here you are playing it.
Needing LW is a lot better than needing world buffs - for starters, LW doesn’t require you to log at certain times of the day, coordinate stuff with the rest of the server, log off until raidtime etc. And you don’t lose LW if you die during the raid.
As for enchanting, talk about exaggeration. Sure, the most hardcore players will definitely pick up and drop enchanting everytime they get a new ring. But that’s hardly required for parsing, let alone for standard playing - 24 spellpower or +8 all stats matters so little in comparison to TBC stats (for example, your typical TBC caster will have over 1000 spellpower unbuffed as soon as T4 content) that RNG variance will decide parses more often than enchanting ever will. And even then, compared to chugging Flasks of Distilled Wisdom like cooldown-less mana potions, even releveling Enchanting every few weeks would be WAY cheaper and less time consuming.
I’m more bemused at you thinking that most of the people who asked for Classic did so because they wanted to play Vanilla and nothing else, rather than because getting Vanilla would eventually mean getting TBC/WotLK again too.
Fair points, but the main reason classic raids feel trivial is world buffs meta and min-maxing to the extreme. 1k DPS warriors weren’t a thing in vanilla Molten Core. If raids manage to pull high enough DPS, TBC raids will also feel underwhelming.
No, Classic raids feel undertuned because people just know how itemisation works. World buffs are a contributing factor in speed clears, but not the overall difficulty of the game.
Lets look at Naxx. Remember when people said Patchwerk has a tight enrage mechanic? Nope.
“Patchwerk has about 3,850,000 HP and a 7 minute enrage time limit (your raid needs ~9500 dps minimum to kill him in time).”
That means if you have 40 people, you need an average of 237.5 DPS each. Lets pretend that you have 10 healers, 2 tanks and 3 AFK/no-showers. So 25 DPS: that’s 380 each.
That is EASILY achievement without world buffs. Hell, most people can achieve that without world buffs or consumables; whilst simultaneously playing with their toes.
Yeah, but that’s the key part. You won’t pull DPS numbers in TBC several orders of magnitude higher than the best players back then. Because theorycrafting did exist back in TBC too, much of it is still valid today, and nowhere as abusable as Vanilla was.
And before people say “muh overtuned Vanilla servers” - tuning isn’t just about damage/HP values. Even if you give Ragnaros double the HP it has, it’s still Ragnaros. Sure, you have to deal with Sons (spoiler alert: on my first Classic Ragnaros guild kill, we too had to deal with a submerge phase), but it’s nothing unreal. It still doesn’t compare to stuff like Magtheridon or Kael’thas. And yes I know those two can be easy once you know what to do. But even when you do, you still have more to do - WAY more - than on Ragnaros. And that’s what IMO makes them more fun.
Bottom line: in Vanilla, even a random player from a dad guild can easily pull double the DPS of an equivalent player back then. In TBC, only the actual hardcore players will go significantly beyond what players did back then.
I would compare heroics to a lower level mythic+ dungeon, there are less mechanics but mobs hit hard so tanks will have to kite at the beginning and the gameplay is slower, there are less reactive abilities and the 1.5 sec global cooldown will punish you if you don’t manage your ability use.
It will be fun to relive the experience but not especially challenging if you regularly clear mythic content.
What’s “fail”? You’re right, one shouldn’t use rose-tinted glasses. TBC will have a lot of flaws, just as Classic does. But hundreds of thousands will play it and enjoy it.
Game went in the toilet due to arena. This hyper competitive environment sucked all the fun out of the game, gave birth to the concept of “fotm” and started an impossible wild goose chase after “perfect balance” which led to modern class design. Eewwww
