Most definitely not.
āForce raidingā is such awful language. Itās a game, youāre free to play it. Is it āForcing M+ā when my bis gear is in it? When in order to raid, I need gear from M+, because M+ is such a vastly faster way of gearing up?
All the system asks of you is to do LFR weekly, takes like 2 hours at most to finish it.
Itās not āforcing raidingā, itās first of all adequately rewarding raiding because letās be fair - raids are unrewarding and thatās why people donāt do them as much as M+. And second of all - itās just an encouragement to play the game. If you donāt like it, donāt engage with the feature, who cares?
M+ this season was still more rewarding than raids. People who donāt raid literally donāt have the right to complain here.
They are extremely unrewarding compared to other content nowadays, their only saving grace is that there is a handfull of BIS items for likeā¦ Three slots on your entire char.
And still unless you plan to push +25 and higher keys, you can just replace them with the best M+ equivalent and be PERFECTLY fine.
How is this even an argument? I know nothing about the raid since i never did it. And i also dislike it, and i do not want to be there.
30 LFR bosses is a heavy demand for something like me. You are only looking from your perspective. I will also never say āCome on now, it is just 8 M+ dungeons to get 3 optionsā, just because it is no effort for me. It is for a lot of other people.
For you information; we are at 24ās. Is it already a little bit valid?
Thatās literally what LFR is for. You donāt need to know anything. Thatās a training ground, almost tuned like an heroic dungeon.
Sure I can understand, but then again you canāt get rewards from a content you donāt want to do at all, thatās just how it is.
Doing 8 M+ is infinitelly harder than cleaning LFR tho. Both because the content itself is much harder, but also because even if everything goes right it takes more time to do 8 keys than 10 LFR boss during your week.
Thatās why I used the example of ONE M+, not eight. Thatās the same amount of effort involved.
And yes you could perfectly say ācome on, itās just one dungeonā. That would be a valid argument.
Nah you scrub the real game starts at 25!
More seriously tho, yes, itās valid. But if you are invested and good enough to clean +24, complaining about two hours of LFR and saying things like ābut I donāt know the raidā is ridiculous.
Iām serious when I say that itās just as easy as an heroic dungeon. Thatās way below your gameplay level. Just tag and destroy it. By the time we finish this argument on the forum you could have cleaned it already.
Exactly my point. It is not. 8 M+ dungeons is stupidly easy and fast.
Your perspective vs my perspective.
Itās not a matter of perspective tho.
To get the interesting gear, your keys need to be done at level 15.
+15 keys are objectively much harder than LFR will ever be. There is no perspective involved, the thing is tuned to be an heroic dungeon but with 25 players in it.
Perspective is when the contents are relatively equivalent, such as compairing heroic raiding and M+15.
15 keys are stupidly easy this season and the last 2 seasons too. You can do everything wrong and make everything a healer problem with standing in all circles and you do it in 20 minutes. The comparison with 1 dungeon it just so wrong i canāt even imagine someone saying that. I did a community +17 grimrail this week and did it below 17 minutesā¦ I canāt imagine how people somehow think this is comparable with doing a raid.
But again. Your perspective vs mine. You with your game, raid and M+ experience, vs mine.
Whatever dude, if you say so.
If someone told me this morning that someone being in the top 2% of the M+ playerbase would argue with me about LFR being hard I would have laughed at him, but here we are.
I hate M+ because I will not do the same dungeon 500 times in an expansion.
But am I āForcedā too do M+ to get to the requirements for Raiding? Yes.
The arguments work in both directions.
But the raiders do M+ and call it a day, the M+ crowd complains that they canāt (or donāt want to) do raiding.
Fyi, there are ALOT more BiS items from M+ then raiding.
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Running a +15 key is not top 2%. But you are allowed to laugh.
Rofl, what?
Just killing jailer on LFR I couldāve done 2x +15s in the time it took for the group to finally kill him, maybe even 3. There was only me and 3 people left that originally joined when we finally killed him.
No, I meant you as a player are in the top 2% of M+ community. But at the same time you are trying to convince me that the easiest content in the game is actually hard.
Thatāsā¦ Quite something.
My experience too.
Yes, i got 1 jailer kill on LFR. Pffft. Not doable.
Fyi.
I do both +20s and Heroic/Mythic raiding.
A +15 is way way way harder to complete then NM raiding, let alone LFR.
But thatās just my 2 cents, as a āboth content PvEerā
I do 20s as well.
I spent almost 1Ā½ hour to get my sylvanas kill this week on LFR.
I spend 3hrs completing a single +15 3/4 week ago, before I quit grinding 
.
They all failed, overtimed or ppl left.
LFR Jailer was a 15 minute matter.
Took long time cuz half raid ded, but we did it.
The amount of time it takes isnāt ādifficultyā tho. A +29 key can take just half an hour to do.
As for your situation, well thatās why people often says that you are better of doing normal mode.
LFR is extremely easy, I bet you didnāt even understand how people were dying. But the thing is: Itās also open to literally everyone.
Try to do your M+ keys with 230 ilvl players with 0 mythic rating and you would simulate an LFR group lol
The group is the problem more than the content. Normal with decent players is a better experience.
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Why would I?
LFR is harder than a +15 because it lets just about anyone queue.
Yes!
I totally agree!
Full NM SoFo on alt was 2hrs.
I sat longer in LFR Q then doing the entire NMā¦