Ah so the there won’t be any healers or tanks, gotcha.
Challenging in the absolute sense, as in non trivial with an expectation of potential failure.
I think you vastly overestimate the capabilities of the average player who will engage with this.
That is specific to the individual. Most people cannot accept any responsibility for any of the choices they make and blame other people no matter what system is in place.
Some noob invited a low gear healer, who did zero healing, then they blamed the healer for wipes. What was this noob expecting? The healer to pump out massive HPS in some of the worst gear ever?
They could at least get it for low keys, that’s where the drama is.
Well we don’t have low keys anymore, they got replaced with delves.
1 Like
If an automated quew is not made for tanks and halers… they wont join. Good luck then with the wait times then. Cause you need a tank and a healer.
With WHO ? With other people that have problems in the existing M+ system ?
That for SURE is a 100% guaranteed recepy for falure.
Yeah we do. That’s all I’m doing. I completed over 10 in the 3 to 5 range yesterday and my wait time was hardly anything as VDH and Guardian. People are just playing for the sake of playing.
And those are 13-15s in the old system. Not exactly low.
I mean that’s kinda the point. If your m+ experience as a tank when you get choose your group is already that easy, why would you use a queue and get on average worse runs?
I would do it for gold plus they could come up with some way to get me to not cherry pick keys.
I still have never done SoB or the spider dungeon that isn’t CoT. If my key goes to those I just join a DB or NW and change it at the end or play a tank who has a key I know.
And why not? There will be at least one. Me 
I am pugging. I think I have seen everything 
With everything I mean even a tank who jumped 4 times into a group and got one shot because his gear was red. And that before I could finish my sentence to tell him that. DH tank of course.
when were you last time in +4 ?
if you join those keys you really can see how bad average wow player is.
and what LFG tool actually change ?
if you die like baboon or not useCC i will leave you neveretheless
you are very entitled to hop inside +10 only did +7 wow
i have worked my back off tier by tier. +8 to +9 dung by dung and you just wanted skip that and hand it on a silver plate ?
not gonna happen, buddy.
i decline people like you in an instant
This topic just keeps proving how toxic the M+ community is.
1 Like
Not long ago. I am helping randoms here and there since there is nothing I can do right now.
My worst run so far was with some people from No Pressure Discord on +7. It was by far the worst run I had this season. I didn’t even know you can tank so slowly and so… weirdly. Like… I literally couldn’t imagine that. It was so out of possibility than main brain did not even consider it. And I pugged a looooooot. But I’ve never seen something like this. We even didn’t time it lol… even tho we all been outgearing the dungeon by a lot.
You missed the context. That means he did +7 with 3 chest. That’s not a guarantee but an indicator that +8 would be a waste of time.
Did you tho? What if I told you to show me your +9 run in Ara Kara between +8 and the +10 you had? You see how you just demand something from someone else while you don’t fulfill your own standards?
i might missed context but 7 is still 7
you dont know if you push 10 as hard as 7 on +3
especially with combined affixes
maby its just me but i like to climb the ladder in a normal pace
Good lord this is so incorrect I nearly fell out of my chair.
I only do round about that level of key and I timed about 10 yesterday.
I’m playing right now if you have a key that isn’t SoB or Ara I will tank it.
No i mean in the LFG for m+. You gone get random classes and random people you have 0 control over. Atleats now you can see if people completed a +6 or + 8 or a +10 and how many aswell look at there gear enchants gems. Non of this will be possible in a LFG tool.
And what punishment would you propose ? 30 min deserter ? You have any idea how toxic m+ LFG will become if you punish people for leaving. I can give you plenty reasons why this is a verry bad idea.
people will stay in the group and stop all dps GL completing it with 4.
people can portal out the dungeon and stay in the group gl completing it with 4.
People can keep wiping the group have fun staying in the group in a m+ you cant compleet.
What if you cant get passed a surten boss for whatever reason you gone stay inthere forever ?
Tell me again how big you want the punishment to be.
That counts the same people for different 10’s that is not 2,1 mill unique players completing a +10.
Because its a perk of playing that specific class thats why. If you want TW/BL play that class or inv one of these classes. Why should everyone have TW/BL plz explain.
Blizzard is gone need to use 1 way or the other to match people togheter in a LFG M+ tool. How you wane do that ? have 2500 score ? Tell me what should they use if not score or ilvl or other m+ completed that actually give you a score.
No punishment will stop people from leaving. 30 min deserter ? give me a break i have 6 alts i can play do delves farm some ore or herbs do some pvp plenty things to do in the 30 min i cant sign.
If you make the punishment to big i doubt people gone sign for m+ LFG or it will become so toxic other people will leave for abuse.
The tell me,you clearly know how they gone do it if i read your answers. Tell us how they gone match people . You really gone tell me someone who hass 2500 score but not from LFG tool cant sign because there score would be 0 there ?
You can balance your group yourselff how you want it to be. The LFG tool will probably not. It will never be as balanced as pugging now. You litteraly have no say over the group thats a fact.
Ye but for most keys the majority of people is doing that’s not that much relevant tbh. Meanwhile when pugging, right now, you have no control about inviting the people you hope you invited. Means if you invited a Shaman because you think he is gonna pop poison cleansing totem but he is simply not doing it. Or only having 5 interrupts while you were hoping on his range interrupt… etc etc.
But as speaking of right now, it’s extremely easy to boost people to +8. Even +10 is fairly easy, at least with 2 good dps. So this completion, at least right now, is completely meaningless.
Meanwhile, with the “M+ finder” you will not have “really boosted” people. Means, they were most likely not carried by 2 fully geared and experienced people, since everyone is kinda starting at the same rating and has to grind his way through.
So technically right now you have MUCH higher chances of getting someone boosted in your groups, than with “M+ finder”.
Honestly I am not sure what exactly what would be appropriate. Maybe even like a debuff that decrease your gain of score? Would honestly sit down and think about it but I am not getting paid for it But I am 100% sure there are some decent solutions for everyone.
Well, I can already tell you how “toxic” the pugs are right now, without any punishments. There is no way it can become more. I honestly could not imagine how.
This sure can happen but we will have punishments for this 
So in the end this guy will ruin his game time much more in the long term, meanwhile you will be affected less and less by this kind of people. But right now there is literally nothing you can do if someone does it to in pugs. So for me, clearly plus point for “M+ finder”, which we sadly don’t have.
Here applies the same that I just wrote above.
Ye this one is though, not sure how this can be solved but surely there is a solution to this. Most important tho: They can do it in pugs too right now. How do you stop them right now from doing that? Correct, you can’t and you don’t.
No, obviously you could have like a vote if everyone is fine with ending the dungeon. If 3 (or 4?) people agree, it’s over for everyone without any punishment. On top of that you could leave without punishment once depleted. Or the game simply automatically kicks you out.
So I think it’s fair to say that there was so far not one argument that’s gonna be worse in the “M+ finder” than we have now, correct?
Ye, I know but it’s still the best measurement we have. And I don’t think that from this 2,1 million we have… how many? If we assume 5 mil players playing… that it’s just 50k people? That would mean every single person have to play with 42 characters. I think this is not gonna be what’s going on.
I’d claim the majority are different people and we are far away from that 1%.
We already had it and I don’t recall people complaining. Technically I agree with you but I’d also not be bothered if my group composition would be lacking CR or BL. I surely would be like “aww man this is gonna be rough” but I’d take the challenge and still try. So to answer your question why everyone should have: to satisfy the crybabies who would complain about the possible group compositions
But as I said earlier, that’s something you could have adjusted in the matchmaking. So not a big deal at all.
As I said, you use the score but everyone obviously starts with zero. Just like in solo shuffle. The score outside of said content is irrelevant. At the start it’s obviously very rng but the more people play the more data is here for matchmaking. It’s actually kinda basic and not hard at all.
That’s because you have only one punishment in mind. I could think of several punishments that will already not allow you to grief other people as much as you think you could. Meanwhile right now you can. Without any punishment.
Wdym? Are they gonna join now or not? If you leave, the punishment will prevent your at some point from playing at all. At least they could. And even if the punishment is “too big”, nobody is forced to join. The ones who join can still play. Who is this going to harm? The system should not be in place to replace something. You need to fully understand that first. It is supposed to be an addition.
Everyone starts with zero. Doesn’t matter if you have 0 score or 10k with pre mades. The more you play, the more score you will get, just like solo shuffle. So you will gain score and with this specific score you also get matched. I am not sure what exactly is not clear here tbh.
Can you tho? But let’s say, yes you can. What else does that mean? That some spec will have no play or a hard time finding a group. The “M+ finder” would exactly fix this.
Why not? I don’t see a single reason why this should not be the case. If anything I could make an argument it will do it even better than the player.
You just keep forgetting one major thing. You know what’s the most unbalanced pug group? The one that can’t even start the dungeon because they can’t get 5 people
Jokes aside, the ones who want to pug can still pug. There is no problem.
Let’s assume, or the sake of simplicity, that those 2,1 mil are not characters but individual people. Let’s say 300k of those would want to play via “M+ finder” instead of pugging and they are fine with all the rules. Why would you be so against it giving them the chance to do it? Why would you want to force them to play the way you want it and not let them play how they want?
You better be ready to work hard my friend. Cause me and Ellipsis wont be there. And many others.
I simply cannot imagine the dumb comps that will show up.
Considering that there are more people playing Hunters and Paladins than any other class im sure that 90% of these automatic quew will be 2 Paladins and 1 hunter.
What a horrible experience.
No /10char