or the people who didn’t want to play arena and simply understood that anything above 1.6 rbg was virtually impossible as r1 hoth and blizzcon players used rbg only as a capping system and 2.1 teams were gating everyone below
and that is without even considering u just cannot get invited even after 4-5 hours of lfg if u r not meta, and this has only gotten worse
also, anyone entering the season while it had aalready launched and fell behind on gear, would not get invited too, and could not enter parties to rank up and upgrade his gear, because his gear was low
sl gearing system might go down as the worst gearing system we ever had, and that is saying smth since bfa didn’t even had any, and it was not this dreadful
People also tend to forget that Covid basically started and technically forced ppl to stay inside.
Blizz also had a point where they let ppl play for free.
I am not saying covid had no influence on Shadowlands, I am saying it had no influence on PvP participation, at least not to that extent. While the argument also remains that other expansions had higher PvP participation too, where gear mattered. You simply ignore that and just throw in the ring whatever fits yourself. That’s not how it works.
It definitely did, and I am a living example of it. I quit in BFA s4 because I couldn’t be bothered with the gear grinding, COVID happened, got furlough from work and was just stuck inside all day. By extension that carried over to Shadowlands. Covid 100000% influenced PvP participation in both BFA and Shadowlands.
I didn’t play BfA S4 either and I was home during covid as well but you are a PvP player, just like me. You could have played M+ instead but I assume you didn’t.
Sure but it was not the only factor. How do you explain the low DF participation and the “high” participation of every other expansion (outside of Legion and WoD)? Swine flu?
In BFA s4, I did 3s, 2s,M+, raided and cleared Mythic. All because I was bored during COVID.
Because DF had very disgusting, game breaking outliers which made the game borderline unplayable for multiple weeks. Ret, DH, Demo, Aug just to name a few early on. Also very lacklustre rewards. Other than the S1, S4 Glad mounts and the Shadow Flame illusion I hardly see incentives to even bother playing DF, let alone seriously.
Like every expansion in WoW. BfA S1 was completely broken too, what was it called? Traits? The gear that empowered you spells. Rogues could one shot at range. MW monks outdps’d other dps specs etc… the list goes on but this is just from the top of my head.
Every expansion had always something broken, that’s literally nothing new nor exclusive to DF.
Thats not what I said or did either. You were the one trying to say covid had nothing to do with ppl playing WoW since they were simply not “forced to play”. So trying to direct the attention to “gear” being the sole big reason why PvP had higher participation.
Do you really believe WoW has gotten more players, less players or been stagnant for the entire DF. And the reason why people play less PvP based on your, I hope, statistics, proving the biggest reason is the PvP gear not being upgradeable through rating.
Its almost like you assume the only reason ppl play less rated arenas is just gear related. Theres no other external factors involved right?
Its obvious for anyone with any form of understanding in terms of logic thinking if they refuse to look at statistics. (Quite sure I remember there being quite alot of news about gaming increased quite alot due to ppl having to stay indoors for example).
WoW having a period where the game were free to play could also have made it so more ppl played it.
Were those things also added mid-season like ret rework, aug spec being added etc?
Wrong again. You bringing up covid and make your entire argument around it, even till now you keep doing that while putting words in my mouth. I never said covid had no effect on WoW, I said it barely had any influence on PvP participation and there is nothing you can say against that. Unless you found some kind of evidence how covid made people play WoW PvP? I’d be glad to hear about that.
Do you have any valid point why WoW PvP participation was always higher when gear mattered? Feel free to pick anything outside of Shadowlands.
WoW had less people paying PvP in DF, that’s the whole point.
I’d say lack of proper incentives but since the only other incentives we had so far, besides titles and mount, was gear… yes, because of that.
So every time we have less PvP players when gearing is easy, there are ALWAYS just some external factors? The coincidence tho… isn’t that funny? Every time gear matters and we have more PvP players, there are some weird external factors it seems, that made people play more but every time there is easy gearing, there seems always to be something that makes people not wanna play… and what is it?
Ye, yet you somehow made a conclusion covid made people play WoW PvP and not any other game. Why? Why did people choose to do that? Why would they choose to play what’s bad? Where is the logic here? Why did they not choose to play any other game? Or PvE? Why was it WoW PvP, especially when it was so bad? Make it make sense.
What’s your point? Does a new spec and a class rework not result in more players? Yet DF had less… like…???
There is no way you are going to call anything more broken in DF than in SL or other expansions… Ret SL??? Like… did you truly forget that? And I have no clue what extent you can be talking about when Rogues did literallyONE shot at range in BfA… what was unprecedented in DF when we had literally worse stuff in earlier expansions? I call this bs.
It’s just beyond my understanding how you can call anything in DF unprecedented , when we had literally this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZdR3B6jwj4&ab_channel=WoWPvPc0rner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4pN-VMozBg&ab_channel=SpankBanksy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSfVv-oVTts&ab_channel=Rextroy
Like all the borrowed powers we had and PvE trinkets… and then you somehow say we had something broken in DF that reached unprecedented levels? That’s literally not possible. At all. Per definition.
You asked why DF had low participation. I’m telling you. Because nobody wanted to play against some extremely overtuned specs. An accumulation of incompetence leads to burnout, what’s hard to understand?
The argument is invalid because that would mean other expansions did not suffer from similar issues. You tried to argue that DF had somehow worse issues, which (I hope?) is proven to be false.
It doesn’t mean that at all. It’s an accumulation of incompetence. First few times it’s fine, but people have a breaking point
Disagree. Nothing made me want to log on less than s1 Ret and Demo Lock, which is why I played a grand total of 36 3v3 games that season and 100 shuffle rounds. DF S1 Glad mount is known as the Ret Paladin class mount for a reason.
I’m a living example of my own arguments, everything you say about how I responded to the state of the game is quite literally invalid.
First few times? We are experiencing it pretty much every single expansion and since TBC people yell how WoW is gonna be dead any moment… come on… you know that.
Besides that, we had literally much more broken stuff going on that what we have seen in DF. I mean we are literally speaking of one shot with zero counter player to it. Or borrowed powers randomly one shotting people. Or PvE trinkets… like… DF did not suffer any of those.
So the literal one shot by a ret in SL was fine but the ret in DF S1 is somehow more broken? Well… I mean you can sure have this opinion but I’d argue the majority finds literal one shots worse than what ret was in DF S1.
Really? I thought that was actually in SL S1.
You can sure be, I am speaking in general and I am 100% sure the majority thinks that literal one shots are worse than poor balance. As long as I can’t get an argument that’s based on logic or provides any actual evidence, I have no reason to change my statement.
Not really, I am simply going by logic and data. Not own opinion because if I would go only by that, I’d say how 5 of my friends quit because of the current gearing system and one guy completely stopped playing PvP because of that and plays only PvE now. Nobody stopped because of the poor balancing we have for like 20 years…
It’s just interesting to me how some people truly try to argue we had worse balance in DF than in earlier expansions, which is simply evidently wrong. Or how covid magically makes people play WoW PVP (with horrible balance btw) instead of other games.
