The negative aspects & long-term ramifications of Dual Spec implementation

Hello,

I am very disappointed in the direction the anniversary servers have taken, especially when it comes to megaservers and layering, as well as dual spec.

This is an attempt at enlightening most people as to the core game design pillars and implications, those on which the original World of Warcraft was built on. The desire and now addition of dual spec might not be such a small and innocent feat as most of you may originally think. And this goes for the Classic team devs as well. Please bear with me.

So up until now, there was a high barrier to entry in place, which prevented people from respeccing. So people didn’t do it, unless they actively farmed gold to be able to do so. It required effort, obligations and choices: hence creating gameplay loops. Which in turn:

  • Pushed people to move and be active throughout the world, look for farming spots, explore, do dungeons or craft to earn money.
  • It was a significant gold sink, the game already didn’t have many, except for the epic mount for example, etc.

That said being, how else is it negative, at a deeper level:

  • Loss of identity and meaning of specializations and classes
  • Erosion of social foundations: a player is no longer known by his specialization (tank, healer or dps), but only as his class, which was the foundation for community-building, friendship, renown on the server, etc.
  • So loss of identification to your character because less unique, lower long-term involvement in the game
  • Fewer reasons to reroll, therefore fewer reasons to play in the long term
  • Encourages players to roll/need on all types of items, because after all, they have two specializations
  • Which will then lead to an ostracization of certain hybrid classes (refusal or not wanting to play with them for fear of them needing all the items)
  • The confusion and misunderstandings between players that will result of that
  • Before you had to choose, be a pvp spec player, excel in one but not the other, well no now you can excel in all areas without consequences or price to pay
  • Tanks and healers have fewer reasons to join groups in these roles, because they now have permanent access to dps spec
  • Raid leaders will ask people to change spec before each boss or mob pack as needed, and/or force people who don’t want to play or maintain two specializations to do it anyway, under penalty of being lynched or refused future entry.
  • Even for a simple group or dungeon, when a Druid will say that he is not a healer, he will be flamed because “he has two specs how come he refuses to heal”, etc.
  • Not to mention the fact that it will make raids and dungeons easier overall, because players now have access to another set of abilities
  • The game is supposed to be an RPG (role-playing game), if everyone can do everything, there’s less need for outside help, less need to group with other players; it erodes the basic foundations of what an mmorpg is supposed to be

So yes, the ramifications on player psyche, meta and long-term involvement are much deeper and more serious than a simple quality of life change. All I have seen so far from people in favor of dual spec is just :

  • ‘‘it’s not 2005/2019 anymore people have less time’’
  • ‘’ dual spec addition doesn’t change anything"
  • ‘‘go play ERA’’
  • ‘‘no one forces you to use dual spec’’
  • ‘‘it literally makes no difference’’

All those are not argument, but just blind and unreflected responses that don’t consider deeper implications. While I understand the desire for some classes to be able to have access to another specialization easily, you may not have anticipated that this change may backfire, and actually not favor the classes that you would think could benefit from it the most at first glance.

Every proper game designer knows that players will always choose the path of least resistance when given the chance. Be it bugs, exploits, shortcuts, speedrun, talents, skills, classes, items, you name it. It is the game designer’s duty to limit and restrict players, even if unpopular at face value. Endless QoL and simplification doesn’t make for a better game. Barriers to entry, systems and friction are a core mandatory part of these types of games. In this case, it’s what made Vanilla so successful.

I love the original game, and Classic, and I can accept some small changes, they can be nice. Small changes such as instant mail to alts, higher raid difficulty, gdkp ban or what not, etc.
But massive changes such as R14 grind being made accessible to all, megaservers and layering eroding social fabric, dual spec and chronoboon
 These change the game at a fundamental level, for the worse.

Please revert the change to dual spec. And if not, then please just release one unchanged original vanilla server for those of us wishing to play there. Just make it the RP-PvP server.
The fans that have been supporting Blizzard since 1995-2000, and want to play Vanilla WoW without sprinkles and flavors, deserve so.

.

ps: if someone has the capacity to post this on the U.S forums, please do so asap

16 Likes

naw bro, without dual spec a lot of healers just raid log and have an alt they felt forced to level to literally enjoy any other aspect of the game. that is an absolute negative in my eyes, i have rolled pure dps classes many times because on pvp realms playing as a healer outside of grouped content absolutely sucks.

Feeling forced to have an alt for anything outside of healing grouped content doesnt keep the world alive and keep the class fantasy alive it just makes people not play healers
 and it definitely doesn’t mean every class can just do everything now.

Dual spec for the win!

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I wholeheartedly agree! Thanks for this extensive write up, hopefully it will enlighten both players and developers.

My hope is that we will get a 2019-style fresh in addition to the anniversary realms. It is very unlikely, but hey there’s nothing wrong with voicing your wishes :slight_smile:

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I guess you play without addons for the “pure” vanilla experience?

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I, for one, played with addons in 2005. Today I use the bare essentials.

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healers are more than capable of farming gold. stop repeating stupid narratives that have no basis in reality.

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I imagine people have still rolled for off-spec gear, without dual spec implemented.

To my experience people have not been forced to swap spec or role if they did not want to, raid leaders would ask the raid if anyone -could- change because the raid needs it. Without dual spec, the raid would simply not have the needed roles. Then what?

I would prefer to be able to do both PvP and PvE because I can’t see anyone living life purely for battlegrounds or world pvp without ever touching raiding.

Anecdotal, but I’ve never seen anyone flame anyone else for not swapping roles for a dungeon even if their class has the needed role. Besides, a druid with dual spec could as well be dps/dps. Balance
Feral. Or otherwise not have the imagined “healer spec” at all via other combinations. Dual spec or no dual spec, this doesn’t entirely change.

I am a man of a single character with very little interest in actually playing multiple characters, having to reroll, especially a character of same class would be the gamebreaker for me, just to change role.

Communication is important, if you get people flaming you for not catering to them in a role you are not comfortable playing, I would say that player is stuck 20 years in the past, as a child with poor attitude. More than often, politeness can get you the desired outcome as easily as not having the option to be anything else.

I don’t fully disagree with your post though, you make nice points I can see why vanilla enjoyers would agree with you. When I play on the new servers, being known as the masochistic druid healer who levels as one and plays like it was 2004, helping people out when I know healers always seem to be on the rarer side
It has merit to me. Of course, it still takes an awful long time to “restart the game” in case I want to be something else, it ain’t Baldur’s Gate 3 or any other deep RPG game where choices matter but you can still just reroll in a day (yes, I am aware in BG3 you can change class, that’s beside the point!).

But I’m pretty certain Dual Spec is here to stay, I don’t see it going away for any reason now that people have been given the taste. I do hope both sides of this forum conflict get their wishes true. Even if it would be the hardest of choices for me personally, to choose between “true vanilla-like” and “Anniversary Classic”, the choice would be welcome amongst many. Let both sides have fun and get their fresh, clean slate experience.

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I am sorry, are we going to be able to change into a different class now all of a sudden?

There is still a main and offspec and exists in retail, era etc. Such a non argument.

Certain Raid leaders do this in era as well. There is a simple solution; pick your guild carefully.

This is a very valid reason. Not sure if you noticed but most people that play classic have jobs and kids by now. We also don’t have the pleasure of Covid anymore so yes; we do have less time.

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Thank you so much for this post. I agree with everything you say. Thanks for taking the time to lay it out so perfectly.

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@Skinnypeteyo

You’re really going out of your way in order to invalidate my arguments in bad faith aren’t you.

Yeah MS over Offspec
 how do you think it’s gonna go when running 5 mans. It’s gonna be abused in every way possible.

And oh, less time to play you say :

  • So if you have less time to play Football or Basketball for example, because kids/wige/job
 Should the game itself be changed fundamentally in order to cater to you ? Make it last only 30 minutes ? Or should you be allowed to wear boots with a magnet, along with adding a magnet inside the ball as well ? Enough said.
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In your raid spec? Mind you, your raid doesn’t let you raid with holy damage spec that takes holy nova, holy reach, divine fury, searing light, spiritual guidance, Force of Will, and Spirit Tap. Sure, a spec like this can be somewhat effective at solo open world content, and possibly gold farm - but it’s not a healing spec, and isn’t desirable in raid. With dual spec you can have disc/holy healing, and disc/holy damage, and nobody gets hurt.

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Blizzard, in their attempt to sit on two chairs, ended up pleasing no one. Everything you wrote is true, but without dual spec, I wouldn’t have even considered this fresh launch, and neither would some other players. Those “world activities” would simply lose participants either way.

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What a stupid comparison - these sports are constantly being supplied with new, young people. Where WoW Classic is not.

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Dual specc only for Paladins, Shamans, Priests and Druids would have been fine for me.

Dual spec for pure DPS classes should have never been a thing imho.

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Hello everyone,

The Benefits of Dual Spec and Its Positive Impact on the Overall Gaming Experience:

  1. Elimination of Frustration and Increased Flexibility: One of the greatest frustrations for players, especially those who play hybrid classes, was the constant cost and effort of respeccing. Dual spec allows players to fully enjoy their class without having to waste hours farming gold just to switch gameplay styles or meet group needs. This encourages a better balance between PvE, PvP, and various roles.

  2. Encouragement to Participate in More Content: With the ability to switch specializations quickly, players are more likely to engage in group activities like dungeons, raids, or PvP. This enriches the overall gaming experience by creating a more active and diverse player base, making high-level content more accessible to everyone.

  3. Reduction of Tank and Healer Shortage: The lack of tanks and healers is a constant issue in MMOs. With dual spec, players who specialize in these critical roles can easily switch to DPS for solo content or activities outside of raids without sacrificing hours to gold farming. This makes forming groups and raids smoother and more accessible.

  4. Lowering Barriers to Entry: The costly and rigid respec system often discouraged many players, especially those with limited playtime. Dual spec lowers these artificial barriers, allowing a broader range of people to engage in the more complex and rewarding aspects of the game.

  5. Promotes Gameplay Diversity: Instead of forcing players to choose only one role, dual spec encourages experimentation and learning new aspects of their class. This enriches the gaming experience and helps players better understand group or raid synergies.

  6. Minimal Impact on Class Identity: The argument that dual spec destroys class identity is debatable. Players can still specialize and be known for their expertise in a particular role while having the flexibility to adapt when needed. This doesn’t diminish the importance of a primary specialization but rather provides a way to respond to community needs.

  7. Adaptation to Modern Times: The reality is that the gaming context in 2024 is no longer the same as in 2005. Players now have responsibilities, families, jobs, and cannot dedicate as much time to restrictive game mechanics. Dual spec meets the expectations of modern players while preserving the essence of the Classic experience.

  8. Personal Choice Remains: No one is forced to use dual spec. Those who prefer the tougher, more authentic Vanilla experience can simply choose not to use it. It doesn’t harm their gameplay experience, while others can benefit from the added flexibility.

  9. Economy and Adaptation: While dual spec may reduce one gold sink, developers can adjust other economic systems to compensate. This includes costs for gear, repairs, or other features, maintaining balance without unnecessarily penalizing players.

  10. Preservation of RPG Essence: An MMORPG evolves with its community. The role of an RPG is to enable rich and dynamic interactions. Dual spec does not diminish this aspect but instead enhances it by allowing players to collaborate and assist each other more effectively, adapting their abilities to the moment’s needs. This creates more memorable and interactive moments, which is the goal of a massively multiplayer role-playing game.


In summary, dual spec enriches the game by making it more accessible, varied, and dynamic, while reducing unnecessary frustrations. It reflects the natural evolution of player expectations while preserving the magic of World of Warcraft Classic.

Thank you for reading.

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That he doesn’t agree, doesn’t make it bad faith.
I also don’t agree with you to be honest, main point just feeling bad for all the bad raid leaders that seem to exist in Classic. Being forced to play a certain way, sounds like a ‘great’ guild.

I also think that dual spec is a great addition for classic, I was there in vanilla 20 years ago, and think most of us would have loved that at the time.
Especially being a tank or a healer, just being able to spec to a Dps spec outside of group content would have been great.

Being forced to level an alt, to be able to play a different spec, like what? Also just for creating groups, being able to go healing, tank or dps, overall I think it will help group making plus let people enjoy something else as well.

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Please play a fire mage and keep your identity while in MC without dual spec.
You guys are so far away from Vanilla reality it’s ridiculous.

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Servers almost launch. Hopefully the melodrama will stop on these forums.

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Accessible to who? Retailers?

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They will be, all too busy leveling on the new servers they’re so eager to deny they’ll be playing on.