The usual cop-out of M+ players, yet y’all keep wondering why we don’t join you in M+…
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I think you should not generalise about all the players for a gamemode. He is just 1 person.
A lot of M+ players think delves are quite a good addition to the game.
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And you only have a score of 717, so you obviously don´t have enough experience to form a valid opinion. I don´t even run M+ and despise it with a passion, but I still doubled that score in the first 2 weeks of the expansion, without even enterinfg all 8 dungeons.
See what I did there? Pointless toxic BS is pointless toxic BS, no matter who´s typing it.
The Hero items aren’t what lures delvers into the Mythic+ system. The rewards in the chest at the end of the dungeon have never mattered so little. The only thing that truly matters is Gilded Crests. You want those to craft 636 gear with your ideal secondary stats. That’s why the delvers want to do +8s.
The only items you should actually upgrade with your crests are your hero/mythic quality set items and trinkets. If you use Gilded Crests to upgrade anything else, you are pretty much flushing them down the toilet.
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You’re right, I shouldn’t brush them all the same way.
Forums luckily do not represent the playerbase.
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i dont think we need to worry about the sweat lords, they will play regardless of being capped or not.
portals were a good idea and so was rio, but both havw the flaw they are a one time thing.
They added gearing as a grind to let the people chase for ilvl, which doesnt work 100% either. E.g. I barely want to finish my last few pieces because it wont do much for me anymore.
they could have other approaches like a mount bar (see pvp mount) or something else that you can get by running dungeons.
many ways to make gear not relevant to the endless loop of regearing and quitting.
DF made it very easy to get max gear with little effort, it was great for people like me who have 8 alts. I didnt quit because i always started gearing and playing other alts.
now they force me to grind the heck out of my main which actually made me unsub for january
Mmmmmmhhh, yes and no… roughly 90% of players will not ever visit the forums, this is correct… but of the 10%-15 the do, the cross section is generally very similar to that of the overall playerbase. This is what makes forums useful to developers as more than just an outlet to centralize venting and rage.
But it is also is exactly what makes the constant toxicity from some M+ “rockers” all that much more concerning, as it´s the one thing we seem to experience on a daily basis… 
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We are discussing a problem appearing in M+ and I was giving advice based on the assumption someone joining this thread was sharing this experience, you are simply not. So… it’s like I’d be having a problem with M+ and you tell me how to solve it by raiding. That’s why we talking about this makes 0 sense.
xD I have 2 chars with 2.3+ and one that got 2k last week… I currently don’tplay tank/DK because it’s too stressful… and again, this wasn’t about Keento’s opinion not mattering because they don’t run M+, it was about my advice not doing anything for them because they are simply operating under different circumstances.
Actually, the only one being toxic was you, based on a misinterpretation. 
Except…that’s not what the thread or issues are about?
I merly turned your statement around 180° and targeted you with the exact same same idiotic “your opinion is unqualified” BS that you did to Keento.
Thank you for admitting that such behavior is in fact toxic, now go change it because it started with you 
Edit, Ok, now I see the rest… please excuse me for assuming that you were merely acting like half the posters in this or any other M+ related thread out of the usual malicious reasons, but actually had benign intent.
But considerining similar statements are thrown out a thousand times a day by others with the obvious intent to attack the validity of someones opinions, you´ll surely excuse that I didn´t expect this to be the 1/10000 that were actually well intendend
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I am not arguing one should not interrupt
I am arguing its improbable to do delve 11 on ilvl it gives without ideal interrupt
Therefore, the whole topic about how delve players somehow cant interrupt is ridiculous
Not to mention that its much easier to farm gear with low-end pvp, anniversary event, raiding etc, than via soloing delves.
So the assumption those new players the topic author met come from delves, and not from chromie time or like lfraid is also doubtful
to sum up, the whole topic is trololo
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They come from delves. Very easy to tell, because they wear delve gear. They sure as hell don’t show up in PvP gear.
Up to the point where you entered the discussion, Tsjoh and I were talking about why ppl run only delves and then hop directly into M7+… something that is no issue to you if you don’t play M+. And I was trying to explain why doing that is the most efficient way, and why running anything below M7+ is usless in my eyes. When you came in stating you want to delete your 8/8 items now because I said upgrading champion track gear is a waste of crests when doing my gearing strat. You just took my statement utterly out of context.
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How can it be a waste of Runed Crests to upgrade champion gear? The statement doesn’t make sense to me. Please explain. Are you one of those guys showing up in m+ with non-upgraded Champion gear? Do you not realize what you are doing wrong?
Apparently, merely not playing the way you deem to be correct. Because nobody in their right mind that actually has easy access to heroic gear would upgrade champion gear before exhausting their sources of heroic gear, unless they´re running into survivability or throughput issues that only more stamina and Mainstat can solve.
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no this is not problematic at all, because you are not funneled into M+, you funnel yourself into it. If you are a delve/world content player, you do not need better gear for the content you do, you just want what other people have and you want it free.
there are older kids still enjoying playing with younger ones on playgrounds. Should we redefine those playgrounds because some kids refuse to grow up and play with kids of their age?
everyone plays content they enjoy, everyone gets appropriate rewards for what they do. If you don’t play raid and m+, you don’t get m+ and raid gear. That’s how it always has been…
because you need that gear to push further. Higher keys are easier, bosses in raids are easier, and you will survive better. You need that upgrade to continue progressing your character. If a Delve reward is the same, it would be given for free, therefor no reason to play end-game content anymore. Delve players DO NOT NEED GEAR UPGRADES, therefore, no reason to give it to them. If you want that gear, go and play for it as we do.
If you cannot see the obvious double standard here and /or or remain willfully blind simply because it clearly benefits and props up your preferred game mode first and foremost, then there´s no point in further discussion.
And this has zero point nothing to do with the point that was being made. Yes,I now firmly believe it is a complete waste of time to further engage with you on this subject. Good day sir.
oh, seems like a misunderstanding. I do not deny double standards, I’m saying there should be triple instead.
you have unlimited time and unlimited tries to beat whatever pack causing you an issue. You do not have such comfort under a timer and responsibility for other people in the group content.
Then possibly the problem is how M+ works no?
To answer your previous question on why we need more Ilvls, isn’t it obvious? the same reason YOU need more Ilevels. for future content. More delves can be released which will require a higher ilevel.
You are mearly gatekeeping. Delves being rewarding in no way deminishes your experience.
Have delves give the SAME (not more, not less) rewards as m+. Problem solved. Everyone enjoy the content they want.
If you think they are easy, go ahead and do them. Since you are a rogue you are squishy enough for it to not be a cakewalk.
Press buttons as fast as possible to kill as quickly as possible otherwise your teammate looses a resource. I cannot fathom how people find this fun. But whatever. to each their own.
Having unlimited tries is the mark of literally any game in existance. You try, you die, you try again. Thats how games work.
By that logic Souls players are not skilled since they can try forever.
Precisely.
Delves work much closer to what I thought M+ would have been like before it was implemented in Legion.
But Blizzard was trying to make an e-sport instead of an alternative to raiding that happens to be a 5 man.
The result: years upon years of people having issues with their M+ run getting bricked
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