Have you ever wondered how can one faction lose 100% of all pugs? How is that ever possible, even if the map is unbalanced? Well it’s because Alliance doesn’t defend SH GY. That’s how it can be an extreme 100% loss rate.
Map balance doesn’t matter for this at all. Alliance reach SH GY faster than Horde and have a MUCH shorter run back from GY compared to Horde when they die. Even so, Horde cap SH GY very early almost every game. If you can’t win that fight you can’t win AV, it’s that simple. If your Alliance team can’t defend SH GY when they have a huge advantage they have a worse team in that AV and will lose. This is not really a topic about defending SH GY, but what kind of Alliance players join AV compared to Horde.
When I say to the Alliance in AV when I play my alt, that they must defend SH GY, they get confused and angry almost. It’s super weird. In one AV they started to ask for me to be reported AFK for saying defend SH GY in chat.
For example, in my last AV as alliance, I saw almost all Alliance on right side of Balinda and like 5 tried to defend SH GY flag, no one called for help, no one reacted or cared, and when they had lost the tagg on SH GY flag, they went to SF GY, lol. Amazing.
My point is. The Alliance players that are in AV today are VEEEEERY different from the kind of Horde players that are in AV.
Idk, I’ve been in games where Alliance tried to defend SH, ambush SH, and other things. It just rarely ever works out and I think it’s simple: Most hardcore PvPers have joined Horde due to OP Racials, you saw it in P2 WorldPvP when usually Alliance got nuked more than Horde except for very Ally-heavy realms. They simply play PvP better across the board, no real magic. I’ve won AV in a 40man premade, but after that it just sucked. Contraside Horde waits 45min for AV queue to pop and damn it’s tryhard time. They don’t let a single person slip thru the back, mages and whatnot literally chase you all the way to base. I’ve tried getting mages to join me porting using the trinket and wiping Horde at Boss, no way. It’s just loads of bad players, that’s really all there is. Hardly any serious good Alliance ranker does AV, even AV weekend they mostly blast premade WSG/AB now.
In order to defend a graveyard you have to play the game in the first place. Alliance rankers don’t care about winning, they want quick honor while taking a break from their actual ranking. I have been in AV’s with more than 10 people staying stealthed around SH leeching HKs for honor/rep. It’s not about not know what it takes, or being unable to do it. There is simply not enough people willing to do it.
The only way to save AV is to start handing out significantly harsher punishment for non-participation, preferably through occasional manual monitoring of the games. The current system simply isn’t working when too many people are afking. It’s not hard to figure out what’s going on if a level 60 night elf hunter or a rogue has spent the entire game around alliance controlled graveyards 30 minutes into the game, and they still have 0 killing blows, and at most 2-3 deaths.
Why does alliance always say this?
How are your racials not ‘OP’? And if this is true, why is Apes 99% gnome? For pve?
Yes Orcs have a stunresist and undead got wotf. That’s it tho, nvm, taurens can stomp.
Humans can see invisible targets miles away.
Every dwarf counters a rogue basicly.
Gnome is a mage worst friend.
Nelf hunters can always get an opener.
The way I see it, almost every race in WoW have a racial that can be considered ‘OP’. It’s situational and how you play your race.
Alliance regroup at hill of shame to bypass the horde grps after and go for the horde towers while a few keep defending at the base. Thats how we do it all times and win with that. Whats the point fighting for 70 minutes at shgy and nothing happens at all? if its not working change the strategy. So stop spamming the forums with that stupid complainment about how alliance is afking at hill of shame and play the fkn game.
Apes went gnome because they have big egos and like to kill you with a weak class.
Gnome racial is terrible compared to horde counter parts remove 1 root or slow every few mins which also has a cast time there is no immunity like horde have in a game where almost all classes can root or slow chained.
Human racial works in about a 10 yard range and you have to be physically facing the stealthed player which you cannot do unless the rogue vanishes Infront of you and this is probably the strongest racial we have.
Dwarf racial is great for removing blind and 1 single remove mana drain cleanse poison from hunters but that is it.but you know what else is a great racial the orc stun resist while dwarfs counter one cc.orcs counter rogues main cc the ability multiple times and not only that the orc resist counters warriors,paladin stuns on top of it.
Nelf hunters shadowmeld is extremely situational and can only be used outside of combat and forces a player to stay in one place. While horde hunters can have an aoe stun into a scattershot into a trap or increased damage from troll racial both can be used more consistently
We haven’t even touched on the undead racial right up there with orc stun resist the fact that is almost better than a second trinket.it completely counters warrior,priest and locks as it breaks you out and makes you immune for a long time after it.and fear is pretty much the only aoe cc used in classic.
Have you ever tried to survive an undead rogue as a priest the only cc priests have is MC which u can’t use as it’s 3 second cast and it will get kicked or stunned or dispeled and also fear.
the fact that the rogue will stun lock you for 9 seconds doing damage, gouge then blind re open with the only option to survive is fear which is completely countered or a warrior charging in to intimidating shout which is really strong in large scale PvP is countered by tons of undead races. I know what your gonna says dwarf priest can fearward every 30 second yes they can and it’s counterable from purge and dispel and only be cast outside of shadowform and cannot be used during fear while you get the on click immunity and devouring plague a strong dot.
Let’s look at Tauren racial a stun a great racial for shamans to one shot players stun to stop a heal then elemental mastery and one shot with a earth shock kick at the end of the burst its very strong and its good for horde druid flag carriers to stun group and travel form away and yes Paladins are also good for flag carriers but Tauren Vs night elf flag carrier horde have the better racial
What options does alliance really have to defend SH GY?
Keep defending until horde boss is up without making any progress, because if horde attacks with all their 40 people then it obviously needs all 40 alliance players to defend it.
Leave SH GY and try to get an another spawning point without ending up behind the SH choke point: SF GY or IB GY or FW. Since these graveyards has timers, all that horde has to do is soft capping SH GY and sending reinforcement against the alliance attack team until they are sent back to north one by one.
Since defending SH is just as pointless as trying anything else, there are games when people just try other tactics hoping that horde makes a mistake, because that’s the only chance to have a different outcome. It usually doesn’t work of course so does defending SH.
Because after SH is lost, the game is over, so people either farm honor by killing horde at SP or just go inactive until the BG ends.
Yes SP is easy to defend because of the same reason why SH is so easy to lose: between SP and IWB choke point there is a long road that slows down reinforcement from both side.
This is called: unbalanced map.
However at the time when the fight reaches SP horde has already won.
Aren’t half the Horde critiques that all Alliance does is defend SH? Now you’re saying that people aren’t defending SH enough. Amazing. It’s almost like it doesn’t matter what Alliance try in AV. Defend SH - > no chance of getting an objective south of it. Don’t defend SH - > once it gets capped without you having anything south the game is over.
And I still don’t know what this “SP choke” is supposed to be. There are like 4 ways of getting to SP. Where is this choke? Not really a choke if you can go around it.
It’s not really a choke, but attackers has too long reinforcement line, which in fact makes SP a choke regardless of how many directions it can be attacked.
SP can be defended very efficiently with few people, the problem is that IWB choke can be blocked with even less effort for the same reason: too long reinforcement line from north.
This is a typically bad game design, because alliance’s better base defense doesn’t make up the disadvantage of being completely cut off from any progress in south.
I’m wondering why no one uses Ram riders ? Those are pretty powerful and take about 20-30 mins to get done.
I clocked about 20mins to tame all the wolves solo (suppose it should be the same for the Rams). With 2 man group and 2 man wolf hide group I suppose 15-20mins could be doable.
I was once doing that (wolf riders) to see if I could complete it at one game… well at some point a Priest mind visioned me and asked me if I’m taming wolves… “I said yes” and he started collecting ram hides.
For some reason the game was in a huge stall at SHGY… Horde couldn’t capture it. But when we got our cavlary up there the alliance was destroyed easy.
Should be worth a try… I mean instead of losing so much I would try something else.
Honestly, I think you are thinking of expansions past Cata when everyone got a stun then the Orc racial became very powerful.
In classic, gnomes are incredibly strong especially for rogue and warrior. I used to be a nelf player but have a dwarf now and as a hunter I can get away from almost any rogue very easily, same with canceling bleed effects. I wish the cooldown would be shorter but I am happy with it as it is.
In old vanilla there were never as many dwarves and gnomes as there are now. Every noob back then (me as well) rolled a nelf or human but even these racials are good if they are used properly and timed well.
OP: Alliance afk in AV because we have instant queues and its just a place to soak rep before going back to real pvp in ab and wsg.
I think your clueless orc stun resist is 25% warrior talent is 15% resist and 5% base resist and they all stack in classic 45% chance passively to resist a stun is beyond op considering some classes like paladins their stun cd is long.
orcs counter kidney shot,cheap shot ,hammer of justice,charge stun,intercept stun, concussion blow,blackout stun,impact stun,bear form stun,weapon procs stuns and probably more I have missed compare that to removing 1 single slow or frost Nova which can easily be reapplied by rank 1 frost bolt,cold snap nova,you can you know hamstring again or compare it to removing 1 blind from a rogue.
Allience rogues have a much harder time dealing with orcs than horde rogues have dealing with a dwarf
It’s not the case anymore. (It was before AB came out tho.)
Recently all alliance is fighting just as hard as horde do until SH is capped.
The problem is SH: very easy to cap, very hard to defend and no way to take it back.
There is no such graveyard at the horde side:
IB is hard to cap, easy to defend, easy to take it back
FW easy to cap, hard to defend, but easy to take it back
I guess I still have to experience this with my alt when I will farm the rep. I haven’t been in an av since March.
In vanilla it was the other way around, Alliance won all the time. I do truly believe this has to do with the queue time. In classic I have never had to wait for more then 5 minutes for any bg in any bracket. Av is nearly always almost instant.
I think that I am just very tired of how many Alliance players complain by default.
I know that as a faction Alliance is treated like rubbish by Blizzard. I got completely turned off by retail after the new races were introduced.
The racial argument is a very old one and it irritates me that it always seems to be food for playing the victim easily.
As I said before, I am having a great time in classic pvp and I see that in game from other Alliance players as well.
The point is that you can win that way. AV is desinged for 2h+ games. Korrak used to spawn after 2h. So if you want to win you have to be ready for a long game and then you need to defend the key locations. Horde can’t win if Alliance defend SH GY. That choke works both ways.
Yes it does. Why would you even make such an absurd claim? Alliance ress close, can use bunker and archers to hold choke. As long as they defend SH GY Horde can’t win.
I have played hundreds of premade vs premade AV and basically Alliance decide when/if Horde are allowed to go north or not. Alliance have a great advantage when you fight to win and dont care how long it takes.
Ah you meant it like that. Fair enough my mistake. But like I said earlier half the Horde critiques are that all Alliance does is defend SH. Now you’re saying that actually Alliance need to defend SH more. It’s almost like it doesn’t really matter since neither of these options are viable or winning. The main problem comes from the fact that SH is so easy to attack and once it’s softcapped the game is over for Alliance if they don’t recap it quickly or have something down south. Meanwhile IB is easy to defend and easy to recap and even if it gets hardcapped the Horde aren’t out of the game like Alliance are if SH gets hardcapped.
Not to mention the fact that you can’t win by defending SH. So you have to attack at some point. Considering that even if the entire Alliance team makes it to IB it’s usually not enough to hardcap it I don’t know how you expect to attack it while also defending SH. And attacking SF is just a deathsentance most of the time because if you die up at the flag you get sent all the way to god damn AS for some reason even if you still have SH.
