The Titanforge Problem - A Potential Fix

[Lyonidus-tarren-mill (Lyonidus)]

@Sharja-burning-legion

You mean mindless sheeps who parrot what their favorite streamer says for money?

So I guess watching someone on youtube or twitch means you’re a mindless sheep.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Not really, I was just doing weekly islands. Didn’t care about defensive ones since i really rarely die by my fault. I have about 98.9% of survivability in raids over a course of 2 months (about 250 attempts).
Haven’t done WQ in really long time. Not farmin azerite at all.

Yea you kinda did, even if you didn’t take that grind seriously.
You were still doing things to unlock the same traits that you previously had.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Nope, azerite gear straight up replaced tier sets.
Legendaries were totally scrapped idea because of sh*tstorm on forums of 9001 magnitude.
You still have talents.
It didn’t fail anything. Actually azerite gear in 8.2 will should be the best idea blizzard had from MoP .

No, it didn’t just replace tier sets.
We didn’t get new talents BECAUSE of azerite gear, they were supposed to be it.
Azerite gear was supposed to “complete” the classes, to make them playable, it’s why you got azerite gear through questing and not just from raids like tier sets.
Legendaries were fine, it was just the manner that you got them was the problem, and yes azerite armor was supposed to replace that too.

We still don’t know how the system in 8.2 is gonna look like so i’m not gonna comment although I doubt it will be their best idea all the way from MoP.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Pretty much you must be insane. People may have additional azerite gear in bags but having 32 items just to play pve and pvp was dumb.

Everyone at least had 2-3 sets, sets for AoE, sets for Single target, a set for dungeons maybe.
It’s not a new concept at all, people in Legion had 3-4 sets for m+ alone where they changed their gear constantly depending on affixes.

@Sharja-burning-legion

It doesn’t make sense at all, not everyone is asking for pvp vendors, stop speaking for everyone it lowers your credibility to some super low levels.

Ok then, show me a pvp-er who doesn’t want pvp vendors? It’s one of the most requested things among the pvp playerbase.
You say that I’m the only one speaking for everyone when you’re also doing the same.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Stop pushing your idea of “fun” to others.

I am not pushing anything, I am merely stating that if you really wanna have fun in an MMO you’re gonna want to actually play with other people because you know this is an MMO.

@Sharja-burning-legion

So damn fun to have nothing to do for half a year at least.

Hey it was the same in Legion, and also kinda in BfA because the patch cycle is much slower than Legion.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Doesn’t hurt them in the slightest.

Except it does, might not really hurt you that much since you apparently don’t care, but for people who do they are forced to play the game more to not fall behind because of a system.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Yeah too much of MoS if they were forced to run them 20 times a day… too much
My co-officer actually did that. Run MoS boosting random keys to grind AP for whole day.

It was still something that needed to be done if you wanted to keep up, you didn’t need to do it of course but it was an option.

@Sharja-burning-legion

No, people don’t like that because that means no motivation to do anything at all.

How is it no motivation? You finally can know how much you can push your character, you can try to attain it with another character if you want, it wasn’t a problem since before Legion because Blizzard didn’t make it a problem.
People like different things, and a lot of people also like to be done with things.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Im done, people like you are the problem of this game :

• Speaking for everyone
• Forcing your ideas of “fun” to everyone
• Thinking they know what should be done.

If you accuse me of this then you’re doing the same.
You’re speaking for everyone in the mythic raider community then just because you and a couple of other people in your guild have that opinion and then when I say that the majority of the people who raid mythic want the same as me you say I’m wrong.

I’m not forcing fun on anyone, I’m just saying that there should be a clear progression system with the hardest content awarding best gear, like how it should be.

If people don’t want to spend the time to learn the game then they shouldn’t be awarded just for logging in and doing 3 random world quests.

[Tuomas-dragonblight (Tuomas)]

I think titanforging is a good addition to open world rewards, it means people who don’t do mythic/raid can keep getting some reward for doing content.

I’d be perfectly happy with a system where top level content would reward non-tf gear that would be the highest possible reward.

everything else should be able to warforge often to max. about 20 itemlevels below current top, and titan forge very rarely to about 10 levels below max.

edit: those 20/10 levels are arbitrary, it should of course be adjusted/tested to match current max levels etc.

[Sugavac-draenor]

Luckily for us who like the current gearing system the titanforing will probably stay in the game since even Blizzard employees are supporting it :

Titanforging and Warforging make me upset

[Sugavac-draenor]

I rly liked the comment from the MPV on the US forum in the thread which is mythic raider atm also :

" Best way to look at it is how it works without titanforging. Mythic raiding still gives the best gear in the game.
Once you realize that, then realize all gear has the same chance to upgrade.

So knowing that the chances of a heroic item titanforging to a mythic item level is tacked on.

So to get a 425 from mythic is much more likely than doing so from a heroic.

So on average, the statement is still true: the best gear in the game comes from the hardest content always.

However, it’s of course still possible, so now look at that possibility this way.

It WASN’T possible before. Meaning that difficulty was useless to you. Now it’s not. So you have more things to do in the game to increase your characters power level.

But you are upset about other people getting it?
No need to be. They are either your friends or associates and helping you killing things. Them having more gear is good for you.

If they aren’t, then you don’t need to be concerned with some one you don’t interact with. There are also people out there who win the Powerball, while you are working your 9 to 5. But no need to be upset about that because you don’t know them.

So, tldr. Gearing works the same way it always does at a base level. Do the hardest content and get the best gear from it. But if you really want, you can do other content and actually have a chance at getting player power, where you used to have no use for that content.

If some one else gets an item you want, don’t covet. Celebrate their luck if they are your friends, put it out of your mind if you don’t know them.

I think that is the healthiest way to look at this topic, whether you enjoy it or not.

Hope that helps. "

[Цэрэг-soulflayer]

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

So you don’t need gear then.

Let it it be me, who decides, what I need and what I don’t.

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

that hurts the other people in the game who are not casuals like you

Better get some statistics, or it might be the case, when raiding “others” are like 5% of players.

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

Them trying to satisfy everybody is what makes the game worse.

How comes, that My shining loot - is the obstacle for Them to raid?

The answer is simple: people are just jealous and angry, they don’t want others to have same toys, like they have.

They think, that they “fought the content” and everybody else should be in green/blue only.

On one hand, their goal is to see an conquer new “content”, but exactly at same time they demand everybody else to go down and say “you don’t need the gear in open world”.

[Sharja-burning-legion]

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

So I guess watching someone on youtube or twitch means you’re a mindless sheep

If you are parroting them, you are. I develop my own opinions based solely on my experience.

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

Yea you kinda did, even if you didn’t take that grind seriously.
You were still doing things to unlock the same traits that you previously had.

I just couldn’t care less as I had first 3 unlocked. Like zero interest. My only azerite income is just 3xM Islands per week and M+ but ONLY because I geniuely enjoy M+

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

No, it didn’t just replace tier sets.

Yes it did replace tier sets.
See tier sets anywhere? No
Talents are there, and we did got new talents (some of them from legendaries)

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

Legendaries were fine, it was just the manner that you got them was the problem, and yes azerite armor was supposed to replace that too.

No legendaries were NOT fine. Not even in slightest. They took 2 equipment slots for whole expansion. If you add to that artifact + 2x set + 4x set + 2 legendaries you only had like 7 slots. Really? RPG with 7 equipment slots?
That reminds me of this comic:
http://www.darklegacycomics.com/comics/612.jpg

And if anyone could get BIS ones at the start of the legion (AKA vendor at the start of xpac), you might as well put these effects into class passives or add another talent tier because obviously everyone will buy BiS ones. So what would be the point?

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

You say that I’m the only one speaking for everyone when you’re also doing the same.

I am negating what you say for everybody because it is not even argument.

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

I am not pushing anything, I am merely stating that if you really wanna have fun in an MMO you’re gonna want to actually play with other people because you know this is an MMO.

Yes you are doing it, again. Some people enjoy playing solo, leave them be.

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

Hey it was the same in Legion, and also kinda in BfA because the patch cycle is much slower than Legion.

On what earth are you living? And in what game are you playing because its clearly not WoW you are talking about. Legion considerably speed up the pace, the same pace is now in BfA. MoP had way too long before content patches.

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

Except it does, might not really hurt you that much since you apparently don’t care, but for people who do they are forced to play the game more to not fall behind because of a system.

It doesn’t, end of story. Stop talking for someone else.

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

It was still something that needed to be done if you wanted to keep up, you didn’t need to do it of course but it was an option.

Yeah option to be benched if you played in more hardcore guild. I know people like that cause I played in top 200 guild with aspiration to get even better so stop spewing nonsense.

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

People like different things, and a lot of people also like to be done with things.

And even more people like to just have fun, thus, we have titanforging.

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

If you accuse me of this then you’re doing the same.

I am not doing the same, I exactly know that there are a lot of types of people playing this game. While you clearly dont.

I do not force my ideas of fun to others. And since we do have TF, must have been majority that liked it. Because blizzard doesn’t get those ideas out of …
They do surveys, they read forums (really, they do).

You know what I hate more about this game more than garbage class balance and bugs? People like you who are trying to force their point of view.

I admit, I am elitist BUT i do not bash others for playing bad until they join my +15-20 key while having 2k rio. I do not despise casuals because they give blizz more money to make this game better.

I despise people who complain and cannot provide better solution.

[Gannet-twisting-nether (Gannet)]

@Sharja-burning-legion

No legendaries were NOT fine . Not even in slightest. They took 2 equipment slots for whole expansion. If you add to that artifact + 2x set + 4x set + 2 legendaries you only had like 7 slots. Really? RPG with 7 equipment slots?

I don’t know about you guys but i keep noticing a trend here; people bringing up the “it’s an RPG” argument whenever it suits their narrative, or sometimes simply adding it when they have no real argument for their preferred features.

So beside the fact that your criticism of legendaries is completely arbitrary, since the same can be said about the other items you listed, what exactly is the “right” equipment slots for an RPG? Shall we go back to D&D and check?

[Lyonidus-tarren-mill (Lyonidus)]

@Цэрэг-soulflayer

Let it it be me, who decides, what I need and what I don’t.

Ok, give me an example of why you need loot?

@Цэрэг-soulflayer

How comes, that My shining loot - is the obstacle for Them to raid?

It’s creating a bigger obstacle for you, because now if you ever get a desire to raid you’re gonna have a worse experience because the game hasn’t taught you anything.
It held your hand in whatever content you were doing previously so now when you join a real raid group you’re probably gonna end up getting kicked and therefore start really disliking that part of the game.

@Цэрэг-soulflayer

The answer is simple: people are just jealous and angry, they don’t want others to have same toys, like they have.

I wouldn’t call that jealousy, I call that actually working for something.
It’s unfair for someone to progress 5 hours or more on a mythic boss and get an item and then someone does a warfront in 20 minutes and gets a better reward.

@Цэрэг-soulflayer

They think, that they “fought the content” and everybody else should be in green/blue only.

I never said that, and why does the color of your gear matter? You just equip the highest ilvl item you get, even if its green.

@Sharja-burning-legion

If you are parroting them, you are. I develop my own opinions based solely on my experience.

No youtube channel is like that and the only twitch channel like that is Asmongold, who only now started streaming again after 3 months break.
Most youtube channels just do news videos, and guess what, 99% of the time the 20 top comments are all about how the game is in a bad state.

@Sharja-burning-legion

I just couldn’t care less as I had first 3 unlocked. Like zero interest. My only azerite income is just 3xM Islands per week and M+ but ONLY because I geniuely enjoy M+

So just because you didn’t grind, the grind didn’t exist at all?
It was still a grind to get the exact same traits you previously had.
I mean even Blizzard literally themselves said that the system as it is feels bad and that was one of the reasons.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Yes it did replace tier sets .

Yes it did, but it also replaced a lot more.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Talents are there , and we did got new talents (some of them from legendaries)

Wow so they just replaced a couple of talents, you mean they took a couple of abilities that classes previously had baseline and just put them in the talents?
It’s one of the main reasons why people don’t like the classes in BfA, because they were pruned and it feels like spells are just missing.

At least in Legion we got the whole Artifact weapon skill tree, but in BfA it’s just netherlight crucible 2.0 so far.

@Sharja-burning-legion

No legendaries were NOT fine . Not even in slightest. They took 2 equipment slots for whole expansion. If you add to that artifact + 2x set + 4x set + 2 legendaries you only had like 7 slots. Really? RPG with 7 equipment slots?

Yeah they were, they added another component that you had to think about, they added depth to your gameplay.
I never said that the slots weren’t a problem, I mean now you have 4 slots instead of the 8 potential in Legion, it’s still there.

@Sharja-burning-legion

And if anyone could get BIS ones at the start of the legion (AKA vendor at the start of xpac), you might as well put these effects into class passives or add another talent tier because obviously everyone will buy BiS ones. So what would be the point?

So then make Legendaries for different situations? Make them competitive with each other, don’t make one be 10% dps increase while another is 2%.
That was the problem in early Legion, but after like Nighthold legendaries weren’t a problem at all.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Yes you are doing it, again. Some people enjoy playing solo, leave them be.

They can play solo all they want, but the fact remains that this is an MMO, the whole genre that was so successful because of the community aspect. It’s why vanilla WoW is so liked and requested.

@Sharja-burning-legion

On what earth are you living? And in what game are you playing because its clearly not WoW you are talking about. Legion considerably speed up the pace, the same pace is now in BfA. MoP had way too long before content patches.

What? Antorus released at the end of November 2017., BfA came out 14th of August, that’s like 9 months difference. That’s what I call a content drought.

8.1 released on 11th of December, it’s end of April now and we still don’t even have a date for the 8.2 release.
Everyone is just waiting for 8.2 now, and if it doesn’t deliver a lot of people won’t bother staying past that.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Yeah option to be benched if you played in more hardcore guild. I know people like that cause I played in top 200 guild with aspiration to get even better so stop spewing nonsense.

Yeah maybe but not on progress, attaining your bis probably means you’ve already cleared the raid but if not there’s no way you’re gonna get benched then.

I don’t see how people getting their character decked out as far as it can possibly go to somehow ruin their dreams or aspirations to get into better guilds.
It can only help them, guilds don’t want to recruit someone who isn’t geared or doesn’t know what to do.

@Sharja-burning-legion

And even more people like to just have fun, thus, we have titanforging.

Fun if you like playing Casino Royale, it’s fun for 1% of the time, for the other 99% of the time it’s not, it’s just annoying.
Not seeing the item you get be the best because some rng system decided it’s not.

@Sharja-burning-legion

I do not force my ideas of fun to others. And since we do have TF, must have been majority that liked it. Because blizzard doesn’t get those ideas out of …

Where have I forced anyone to do something they don’t want to do?
I just said that best items should be from the hardest content, if a player doesn’t want to do harder content that’s fine, however then they don’t need the same gear as I need to do world quests.

@Sharja-burning-legion

I admit, I am elitist BUT i do not bash others for playing bad until they join my +15-20 key while having 2k rio. I do not despise casuals because they give blizz more money to make this game better.

Where have I bashed others for playing bad?
If you’re referring to my comment on how 400+ are doing 5k dps, that was a hypothetical situation that I made in my head because I’ve seen it happen in the real game.

@Sharja-burning-legion

I despise people who complain and cannot provide better solution.

Ok, you want a solution, here’s one.
Cap titanforging.
There you go, easy solution, everyone’s happy.
Still gives casual players something to work for while the hardcore players don’t feel like they need to do everything for a titanforge proc.

[Lilîith-silvermoon]

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

@Цэрэг-soulflayer

Let it it be me, who decides, what I need and what I don’t.

Ok, give me an example of why you need loot?

to progress his toons.

and blizzard clearly agrees with him not with you

those are most current hotfixes just announced:

Raid Finder (and Mythic) difficulty for Crucible of Storms will open next week, April 23. Similar to Battle of Dazar’alor, you will need an average item level of 350 to queue for it. To help ensure players get raid ready, we are increasing the maximum item level for certain World Quests rewards. This will include the following:

World Quest rewards will go up to ilvl 370 (from 360)
Emissary equipment will go up to ilvl 395 (from 385)
Emissary Azerite Armor will go up to ilvl 400 (from 385)
Against Overwhelming Odds (when available) will go up to ilvl 395 (from 385)

Once the update is live it will affect active rewards like the Emissaries, so you may want to plan for when you will turn those in.

the system is working exackly like its intended by blizzard

just like i written couple of time in this thread - blizzard is very strongly promoting systems promoting constant gear progression for those who stay subbed long term. its their exact goal . “problem with TF” exist only in your heads.

[Alcia-malfurion (Alcia)]

Got 425 TF Boots yesterday with good stats.
Dont think i deserve them.
For a +10 not in time.

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

And when there was a flying backlash because they wanted to remove it they equally had blues posting that they don’t miss it. Do you really expect an employee to speak out against a feature of their game?!?!

[Sugavac-draenor]

First as I stated Blizzard didn’t implemented this system to the game on the whim, it obviously had good reasons for it. Second the community managers aren’t obliged to respond on the threads on the forum, but they can do that if they feel inclined to represent both their own stances and the ones from the dev team about certain subject to the community. Third a good part of the community still likes this feature and I haven’t yet anywhere seen that Blizzard stated how its gonna get removed from the game, if that would be the case we would have now official announcement about that on both EU english & US forums and the twitter but we don’t.

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

I am hopeful in the fact that they have recognised that it is an issue that they don’t know how to fix. I firmly look forward to the day my loot no longer has to be huge amounts of RNG up on RNG and I can once gain feel good about loot rewards.

[Aérîth-eredar]

@Sugavac-draenor

First as I stated Blizzard didn’t implemented this system to the game on the whim, it obviously had good reasons for it.

same as flying?
flying got a huge backlash, blues responded, that no flying is good, players said no it is not… → Blizzard reintroduced flying

also Blizzard have been ignoring Players request a lot already…
remember reforging from Pandaria? Blizzard says, it makes gearing too complicated, because you have to sim the best reforging stats… now look at the azerite gear and Titanforging, which makes gearing even more complicatet

remember Players requesting to get rid of the reforging cost for azerite gear, because it becomes to expensive?

remember Players requests for PvP Vendors? Blizzard removed them, because apparently some players were not able to find them…

stuff a lot of players liked, was removed, while also stuff, a lot of players do not like is apparently here to stay

[Peacemoon-argent-dawn (Peacemoon)]

This is a great suggestion. It also helps with bridging content difficulties as it allows you to upgrade your stuff (within limits) to start accessing the next tier of difficulty. This would really improve the game in my opinion.

[Lyonidus-tarren-mill (Lyonidus)]

@Lilîith-silvermoon

to progress his toons.

Why does he need to progress his toons if he’s not actually gonna do the content with that gear?
If you actually want to progress your character you’re gonna start doing content that just drops better gear.

@Lilîith-silvermoon

and blizzard clearly agrees with him not with you

Blizzard also change their minds all the time, remember when they said that we won’t have flying anymore?
Huh, I wonder what happened with that.

@Lilîith-silvermoon

the system is working exackly like its intended by blizzard

Yeah the system working correctly is my problem, a system like that shouldn’t exist in an MMORPG game.

Like Punyelf said, it’s just a system that rolls a dice on gear and decides if a piece of gear gets an upgrade or not. It devalues loot, makes you feel bad when you get a piece and it doesn’t warforge/titanforge.

[Lilîith-silvermoon]

@Lyonidus-tarren-mill

@Lilîith-silvermoon

to progress his toons.

Why does he need to progress his toons if he’s not actually gonna do the content with that gear?
If you actually want to progress your character you’re gonna start doing content that just drops better gear.

@Lilîith-silvermoon

and blizzard clearly agrees with him not with you

Blizzard also change their minds all the time, remember when they said that we won’t have flying anymore?
Huh, I wonder what happened with that.

@Lilîith-silvermoon

the system is working exackly like its intended by blizzard

Yeah the system working correctly is my problem, a system like that shouldn’t exist in an MMORPG game.

Like Punyelf said, it’s just a system that rolls a dice on gear and decides if a piece of gear gets an upgrade or not. It devalues loot, makes you feel bad when you get a piece and it doesn’t warforge/titanforge.

i do remember - i also rememeber threads on official forums capping 10 times in first 4 hours after its announcement and countless more created. now you managed to get to 350 posts in 5 days out of what half is 6 people spaming exacly the same stuff for past 200 posts.

i wouldnt held my hopes up if i were you :0

but sure you are welcome to do so - just like people on mmochamp still spaming thread about high elves

[Unholyhomie-twisting-nether (Unholyhomie)]

Amen
10char

[Unholyhomie-twisting-nether (Unholyhomie)]

@Moritz-emerald-dream

That is your opinion.
But when it comes to doing world quests for your gear because that is the content you enjoy, and are stuck far below everyone else,

Then thats ur own choice to be stuck far below everyone else… why is it that so many casual players feel like they are entitled to receive the best gear in the game when they dont want to work for it …

[Ektellion-silvermoon]

I like titanforging … it feels just like with the legendaries from Legion … sometimes it’s a really nice surprise